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ATL ZJ
08-20-2004, 10:28 PM
Here is the setup:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/atlzj/DCP_0465.jpg

What's happening:

I am getting some popping from (I believe) the "1 ton" Chebby TRE that connects the draglink to the pitman arm. Seems like it's binding up when I turn and making popping and clunking noises. These noises are loud enough to alarm my dogs when I back out of the garage. (It's not the exhaust- they are used to that).. I have checked wheel bearings, all the arms, trackbar bushings and bolts, and balljoints. When I turn the draglink with my hand, the TRE in question clunks. Should I replace it? Or get a whole new pitman arm and ream it out?


Possible causes??:

I sort of reamed the pitman arm out barely too much. The hole was crooked and I wanted to make sure that the castle nut sat flat on top of the pitman arm. So when I discovered the crookedness, I began to corrrect, and I figured it might be too late. I was correct and ended up having to stop before my old hole was completely overtaken by the correctly oriented one.

Also, I haven't been using a strap wrench or anything when I'm tightening the jam nuts after aligning it, etc. So all the force applied when torquing those down is taken solely by the TREs.

Thirdly, I've also been getting terrible deathwobble because I don't have a steering stabilizer on yet.[/b]

Jim311
08-20-2004, 10:37 PM
The back of the rod ends aren't binding against the track bar bolts or anything are they?

ATL ZJ
08-20-2004, 10:45 PM
The back of the rod ends aren't binding against the track bar bolts or anything are they?

No, there is a plenty of room between the TREs and those bolts. The noise is coming from the driver's side pitman arm area. I had my brother turn the wheel back and forth and creep forward as I sat right there and for the life of me, I still couldn't track it down completely. So it's either this TRE or the steering box (which is think is pretty unlikely). All the steering box to framerail bolts are tight.

robselina
08-21-2004, 12:13 AM
sounds like you do want a new pitman arm.

One question though: would it be worth your while to bend the top of the drag link, maybe make a new one if necessary, so that the TRE sits level when the vehicle is level? It looks like it's at a pretty steep angle right now. At the very least, I would think it's limiting passenger side droop.....might be an optical illussion from the pic....

ATL ZJ
08-21-2004, 01:06 AM
Here is another pic:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/atlzj/DCP_0463.jpg

I don't have access to a tube bender, so bending the draglink is not the best option. I think it may be limiting passenger side droop some. I've only gotten a chance to play on some rocks once with this new setup so far, and mainly climbed a 45* rock staircase with ~2 ft. stairs. Backing down I got a big clunk when the passenger side dropped before the driver side. It makes sense that the clunk was the TRE limiting droop. What about getting a drop pitman arm? I already have some bumpsteer though, and in order to correct that I need to raise the axle-side trackbar mount as you see in the pic. Using a longer pitman arm would help by not limiting the passenger side droop, but make the difference in the trackbar and draglink angles more severe, worsening my bumpsteer.

The angles now:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/atlzj/invertedtangles1.bmp

Estimated angles with drop pitman:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/atlzj/invertedtangles2.bmp

Alaska ZJ
08-21-2004, 10:35 AM
Go get a Drag Link End. Same taper, same thread, but allow quite a bit more misalignment.

Thank you for shopping at the Mall.

gearhead313
08-21-2004, 10:40 AM
barely [/i]too much. The hole was crooked and I wanted to make sure that the castle nut sat flat on top of the pitman arm. So when I discovered the crookedness, I began to corrrect, and I figured it might be too late. I was correct and ended up having to stop before my old hole was completely overtaken by the correctly oriented one.




I would look into what you said here. Most clunks in my rig were either a bolt that was a few hundredths smaller than either the joint size or the bracket size, leaving room for it to move just that amount. The tighter I would crank it down, the louder the pop/clunk was when it moved (but also the less frequent it did move).

I would look into gettting a new drop pitman and making sure that the drag link mates properly up inside that pitman. ...just an idea

ATL ZJ
08-22-2004, 04:29 PM
I retightened the trackbar bracket with a breaker bar and the noise is gone. :roll: :lol: There's no movement at that draglink end. Time will tell if the taper is off enough to make any difference. Good suggestion Alaska on the high misalignment draglink end for that connection. Do you know a part number for that? I thought the ES2027L already was high misalignment.

Alaska ZJ
08-22-2004, 04:45 PM
I have no idea on the part number. if the number you posted is for a Drag Link End then that is what I was talking about.

If it is a Tie Rod End then it is not.

Raacerx
08-22-2004, 09:48 PM
hey, do all waggy 44s have the differential clocked that much more forward compared to the knuckles? Looks weird to me... I know my axle isnt a waggy 44, but the front of my diff is fair close to the knuckles.

http://www.fototime.com/{073F4C65-D503-4D33-B1A0-44F5EF9BDC21}/picture.JPG

robselina
08-22-2004, 09:54 PM
Those TREs only work up to like a 30 or 35 degree angle, so that clunk probably is your draglink maxing out. I'd check your 'frame' attachments at the steering box for damage (just an FYI). As for a solution, DPA might not be a bad idea, raised tie rod mount like you mentioned if you want reduced bump steer. To fix what imediately ails you though, you really need to get that rod end closer to level.....

ATL ZJ
08-22-2004, 11:45 PM
I have no idea on the part number. if the number you posted is for a Drag Link End then that is what I was talking about.

If it is a Tie Rod End then it is not.

Yes, it is the drag link end, not a tie rod end.

ATL ZJ
08-22-2004, 11:52 PM
hey, do all waggy 44s have the differential clocked that much more forward compared to the knuckles? Looks weird to me... I know my axle isnt a waggy 44, but the front of my diff is fair close to the knuckles.

http://www.fototime.com/{073F4C65-D503-4D33-B1A0-44F5EF9BDC21}/picture.JPG

Nope. The spring perches on mine are not only raised about 2 inches, but turned so the pinion is pointed up 5-6* without needing any adjustment of the arms. I may need to turn it down to get a little more caster if the DW persists.

ATL ZJ
08-22-2004, 11:59 PM
Those TREs only work up to like a 30 or 35 degree angle, so that clunk probably is your draglink maxing out. I'd check your 'frame' attachments at the steering box for damage (just an FYI). As for a solution, DPA might not be a bad idea, raised tie rod mount like you mentioned if you want reduced bump steer. To fix what imediately ails you though, you really need to get that rod end closer to level.....

Well...

As I said in my last post, "I retightened the trackbar bracket with a breaker bar and the noise is gone." So that means that it wasn't the drag link end clunking. There is no damage where the steering box attaches to the framerail.

I mentioned that I would have to raise the trackbar mount decrease bumpsteer if I went with a drop pitman, not raise the tierod mount, which would involve new knuckles and histeer.

robselina
08-23-2004, 12:32 AM
Those TREs only work up to like a 30 or 35 degree angle, so that clunk probably is your draglink maxing out. I'd check your 'frame' attachments at the steering box for damage (just an FYI). As for a solution, DPA might not be a bad idea, raised tie rod mount like you mentioned if you want reduced bump steer. To fix what imediately ails you though, you really need to get that rod end closer to level.....

Well...

As I said in my last post, "I retightened the trackbar bracket with a breaker bar and the noise is gone." So that means that it wasn't the drag link end clunking. There is no damage where the steering box attaches to the framerail.

I mentioned that I would have to raise the trackbar mount decrease bumpsteer if I went with a drop pitman, not raise the tierod mount, which would involve new knuckles and histeer.

gotcha on the tracbar now. Just didn't read it properly first time though. When you mentioned dropping the passender side of a ledge and hearing a clunk, that probably was the rod end maxing out though...Might want to disconnect it at the axle side and see how much droop you can get, just so you at least know if it's a problem or not....

Raacerx
08-23-2004, 02:09 AM
hey, do all waggy 44s have the differential clocked that much more forward compared to the knuckles? Looks weird to me... I know my axle isnt a waggy 44, but the front of my diff is fair close to the knuckles.

Nope. The spring perches on mine are not only raised about 2 inches, but turned so the pinion is pointed up 5-6* without needing any adjustment of the arms. I may need to turn it down to get a little more caster if the DW persists.

dunno if you understand what I was trying to ask. On my axle, the knuckle and ball joints are pretty much 90 degrees to the ground; straight up and down. On your axle, they are clocked way back, like 10-20 degrees compared to mine. Im curious if all Waggy 44s come like that, and whether it poses any issues. I would think that when you turn, that it would move your front end up and down vertically since the plane the knuckles are rotating on is not parrellel with the ground. Sorry if Im on crack, just if you look at the 2 pictures, they are way way different and Im wondering why that is.

ATL ZJ
08-23-2004, 02:15 AM
Those TREs only work up to like a 30 or 35 degree angle, so that clunk probably is your draglink maxing out. I'd check your 'frame' attachments at the steering box for damage (just an FYI). As for a solution, DPA might not be a bad idea, raised tie rod mount like you mentioned if you want reduced bump steer. To fix what imediately ails you though, you really need to get that rod end closer to level.....

Well...

As I said in my last post, "I retightened the trackbar bracket with a breaker bar and the noise is gone." So that means that it wasn't the drag link end clunking. There is no damage where the steering box attaches to the framerail.

I mentioned that I would have to raise the trackbar mount decrease bumpsteer if I went with a drop pitman, not raise the tierod mount, which would involve new knuckles and histeer.

When you mentioned dropping the passender side of a ledge and hearing a clunk, that probably was the rod end maxing out though.

I think you may be right. Either that or maybe the trackbar bracket loosening up/ slipping over a thread on one of its bolts, because afterwards the popping really seemed worse. I'll play with the flex up front and see how much travel I can get out of it.

Something else I thought of... most people have dust boots on these. :lol: Since I lost mine already, the angle looks pretty severe because you can see everything. Or maybe it IS severe.

ATL ZJ
08-23-2004, 02:19 AM
hey, do all waggy 44s have the differential clocked that much more forward compared to the knuckles? Looks weird to me... I know my axle isnt a waggy 44, but the front of my diff is fair close to the knuckles.

Nope. The spring perches on mine are not only raised about 2 inches, but turned so the pinion is pointed up 5-6* without needing any adjustment of the arms. I may need to turn it down to get a little more caster if the DW persists.

dunno if you understand what I was trying to ask. On my axle, the knuckle and ball joints are pretty much 90 degrees to the ground; straight up and down. On your axle, they are clocked way back, like 10-20 degrees compared to mine. Im curious if all Waggy 44s come like that, and whether it poses any issues. I would think that when you turn, that it would move your front end up and down vertically since the plane the knuckles are rotating on is not parrellel with the ground. Sorry if Im on crack, just if you look at the 2 pictures, they are way way different and Im wondering why that is.

That is weird... Never thought about that, but you are right. There is more lateral movement of the axle than vertical. The pressure of the springs limits the vertical movement that would exist, I guess. Is it possible that the Waggy knuckles are reamed from the bottom and I am running them on the opposite sides? I got the axle completely taken apart and I just had to figure it out. I think that may be the case :shock:.

FinlayZJ
08-23-2004, 08:22 AM
That is weird... Never thought about that, but you are right. There is more lateral movement of the axle than vertical. The pressure of the springs limits the vertical movement that would exist, I guess. Is it possible that the Waggy knuckles are reamed from the bottom and I am running them on the opposite sides? I got the axle completely taken apart and I just had to figure it out. I think that may be the case :shock:.

If your balljoints are in phase and perpendicular to the ground then your CASTER is at 0* For stock alignment specs, the lower ball joint should be "ahead" of the upper one. I believe spec 5-7 degrees, or 5.5 to 7.5 or something around there. Here is a pic to demonstrate......

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/FinlayZJ/caster.jpg

Raacerx
08-23-2004, 02:17 PM
interesting. thank you for the visual aid. Im always getting + and - camber and caster all mixed up. For me to have a good pinion angle, mine are almost vertical. But I dont have fulltime or anything so maybe I'll back it up some.