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rstrucks
01-03-2011, 05:35 PM
Our rigs are two wheel drive with out 'em! From a hack-and-tap stocker to a 4 speed Atlas, what do you have, what do you want.

Tech specs would be nice - weight, low range gearing, driver/pass drop, etc....

ATL ZJ
01-03-2011, 05:39 PM
I broke my 231 so I swapped in a 205. It's just about bulletproof, knock on wood, and easily twinstickable, but the downside is the ratio is only 2:1. To get my desired crawl ratio, I am running a granny 4spd (np435). In an auto application, you'd need to have a rangebox in front (likely a 203) and then you might get into weight, fitment and drivetrain supporting issues. But for anyone who wants to run a manual trans, or get creative with gearing, it's great. The poor man's atlas.

Ken L
01-03-2011, 07:44 PM
I'm still running the stock 242 in mine, with a Tom Wood's SYE. The biggest pain with that was finding the proper output seal, since at the time the SYE was made for an early 242. It runs to a flanged output and then to a Tom Wood's driveshaft. I like the set up, although I use "full time" less and less each year. In reality, I either use 2wd or 4-low on the trail, I have not had to use 4-hi, either part-time or full-time, all that much.

When I have to change this t-case, I'll go to a 231. For me, the novelty of full time has worn off.

93ZeeJ
01-03-2011, 08:09 PM
i as well have been thinking of ditching the 242 for a built up 231 with SYE ... i find that i hardly ever use the full time anymore.. even in the snow

BigDaveZJ
01-03-2011, 08:11 PM
Figure these would be good links to include in here too.

231 Swap WriteUp (http://www.mallcrawlin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2781)

Input Shaft Swap WriteUp (http://www.mallcrawlin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17376)

242 Info (http://www.mallcrawlin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8549)

I run a 231 with a JB Conversions SYE on my rig. All stock except for the SYE. Been happy with it so far, but something lower than the 2.72 low range would be nice for crawling, but when I consider all the different terrain my ZJ sees it's probably the best ratio for me.

I've encountered a few t-case failures over the years, most related to front driveshaft issues. Had a front shaft come off the front yoke and smash a hole into the actual case, and then snapped the front output shaft on another case.

If you're going to crack a case open, a good set of snap ring pliers will be a big help.

BigDaveZJ
01-03-2011, 08:12 PM
i as well have been thinking of ditching the 242 for a built up 231 with SYE ... i find that i hardly ever use the full time anymore.. even in the snow

I used the 4Hi on my 231 for the first time in probably a good 5 years on Friday when my truck wouldn't start!

Jeeptech01
01-03-2011, 08:39 PM
I know Im rockin an XJ but what the hell. Its all the same anyway.

Im running a 231 case with a PORC sye and was able to use an xj DC front shaft in the rear.

I have considered upgrading the 231 to a 231hd with chevy parts but now that Im doing the 5.3 vortec engine for sure, I have been considering the 242 amg or a 242 hybrid. I have seen a few guys above saying they dont use their full time position much but I think it might be cool to have the awd with 300hp on the street. Kind of like my own version of the srt8 grand (except this one can go offroad :) )

it usually runs fine
01-03-2011, 08:52 PM
I have been happy with my 242 in my zj. I have driven a lot of miles offroad in a rubicon also and the 241 has too much of a gap between 1:1 and 4:1 I think it's uncomfortable. I belive that as long as I have the correct axle ratio for your tires then the 2:72 will remain adequate for my needs. That being said. My drive line will consist of 4.0>AW4>np242>4.88's>37" tires and I think I will be happy with it.

downtowncb
01-03-2011, 10:07 PM
I have been happy with my 242 in my zj. I have driven a lot of miles offroad in a rubicon also and the 241 has too much of a gap between 1:1 and 4:1 I think it's uncomfortable.

I deffinitely agree. I have the 242 in the Polar Bear and I think the 2.72:1 is pretty close to perfect for all I do, the 4:1 in the Rock Limo is too low for most of the trail running I do. When I scrounge together the cash, I'm probably going to go with a 3.0 or 3.8:1 two speed Atlas for the Polar Bear.

Mtn WJ
01-03-2011, 11:27 PM
I have the stock 242 that came with my WJ new. I changed the front output shaft to an XJ model when I changed the yoke to work with the Ujointed drive shaft.

I like the 242 in my situation becuase:
2 HI for general driving around town and getting to the trails and back.

4 HI full time allows the drive shafts to differentiate which is great when having a detroit in the rear. Much better than in 4 HI part time on the ice and snow.

4 HI part time locks the front and rear drive shafts for those time when I need the traction in high range.

N - obvious

4 LO the 242 does lock the drive shafts in 4 lo as well. Most tcases do however some older ZJ models did not.

Basically I like the 242 for my application. Especailly with a locker in the rear. It is nice that a SYE kit is available too. I found I do not need a SYE because of the HP axles. I do wish there was a 4:1 low kit for the 242.

OverkillZJ
01-04-2011, 10:11 AM
My 1997 Limited V8 came with the ever-hated 249 (Full time 4wd, through a viscous coupling which often fails). One of the first things I did was swap it out for a 231HD (2HI, N, 4HI, 4LO) from JB Conversions with a SYE, because I knew I'd keep wheeling it, and back then the 249 was more of a mystery than it is now. I sold that 249 to JPRanger (close, real name Cory) and apparently it lasted for years and years on a rig with 38's... go figure!

The 231HD was great for what I used it for, and eventually I installed a "Tera 2 lo" in it which put an additional range of lo for the rear wheels only (2HI, N, 4HI, 4LO, 2LO). I ran a full locker in the front 30, so this allowed me to bump into 2 around tight corners where I had too much traction to steer.

When I went buggy the 231HD was replaced with a 5:1 Atlas II (HI, N, LO - stick for either axle)- I wanted a 3 speed Stak, but the backorder was about 3 months minimum. The Atlas has been great, and once I learned to actually use the twin sticks for front digs and burning the rear end into place, its hard to use a regular tcase now!

I ended up with a 5.9 as well, which used to be a friends (PK on here). The 249 VC died at about 160,000 miles, so I hellped him swap in a 242 (2HI, 4PART TIME, 4 FULL TIME, N, 4LO). It wouldn't have been my first choice because it is a bit weaker than the 231, but to be honest, I've found that with the winters around Pittsburgh, having that "4 wheel FULL TIME" option below 2wd is great!

I'm going to be replacing the 242 in that 5.9 with the AtlasII from the buggy, but that's only because the 242 isn't strong enough to support the 1 tons I'm putting under it - and I like twin sticks :)


That was more a random story than anything technical, but there you have it!

SirFuego
01-04-2011, 10:35 AM
I'm running a 231 with an AA SYE. It's still going strong. We'll see how it holds up when I make the switch to 1 tons.

I sometimes wish that I had deeper gearing so I'm not constantly two-footing on the rocks, but at the same time, I like the stock reduction for hill climbs and such. That said, since I got my transmission rebuilt, the stock gearing isn't as bad since more torque is getting to the wheels. I'm going with deeper axle gearing with the new axles, so I'm hoping that will give me enough gearing to be happier with the stock reduction.

I've considered some sort of doubler with a 4:1 kit, so I can have 2.72:1 and 4:1 options, but since I don't have parts lying around, the cost of buying a 4:1 kit, another tcase, and a doubler kit was getting expensive enough to the point where I might as well just save up and go for a 4-speed Atlas that will probably be the last tcase I'll ever buy. My "might as well" threshold is probably a bit lower than most folks, though.

SB406
01-04-2011, 11:02 AM
I broke my 231 so I swapped in a 205. It's just about bulletproof, knock on wood, and easily twinstickable, but the downside is the ratio is only 2:1. To get my desired crawl ratio, I am running a granny 4spd (np435). In an auto application, you'd need to have a rangebox in front (likely a 203) and then you might get into weight, fitment and drivetrain supporting issues. But for anyone who wants to run a manual trans, or get creative with gearing, it's great. The poor man's atlas.

I agree on the 205.
I ran a 203 in my Chev chassis for a while before swapping in a 205. Of course, I twin sticked the 205 before I even put it in. Very simple modification. Without front dig, wheeling would be lame. :smt081 I run a Chevy 205, but the outputs are easilly interchangable with Ford, so I upgraded to a 32 spline front output. All 205 rear outputs are 32 spline (except the old 10 spline units). The only downside is the 2:1 low range, but that can be made up for in other ways. This spring I'm going from a TH350 to a 700R4 to get a little deeper gearing. LoMax 205 is another option, giving 3:1 low range.

Also, despite the "bulletproof" reputation, I watched one be broken this fall. First Low range to the rear. Then, after discovering that hi still worked, the driver decided to keep wheeling (The parts only get smaller :D). At the end of the day, Hi to the rear went. Probably the shift collar. This was between a 383 stroker/ TH400 and 1 tons w/ 44" boggers.

ATL ZJ
01-04-2011, 11:44 AM
I agree on the 205.
I ran a 203 in my Chev chassis for a while before swapping in a 205. Of course, I twin sticked the 205 before I even put it in. Very simple modification. Without front dig, wheeling would be lame. :smt081 I run a Chevy 205, but the outputs are easilly interchangable with Ford, so I upgraded to a 32 spline front output. All 205 rear outputs are 32 spline (except the old 10 spline units). The only downside is the 2:1 low range, but that can be made up for in other ways. This spring I'm going from a TH350 to a 700R4 to get a little deeper gearing. LoMax 205 is another option, giving 3:1 low range.

Also, despite the "bulletproof" reputation, I watched one be broken this fall. First Low range to the rear. Then, after discovering that hi still worked, the driver decided to keep wheeling (The parts only get smaller :D). At the end of the day, Hi to the rear went. Probably the shift collar. This was between a 383 stroker/ TH400 and 1 tons w/ 44" boggers.

Impressive. I guess it's kind of like a hp60 ring gear. Sure once every 5 years you might break one, but it's infrequent enough to not worry about upgrading unless you are racing or have money to burn.

Jeeptech01
01-04-2011, 05:46 PM
205 is a cast iron case or alum?

cowboy63b
01-04-2011, 05:59 PM
205 is a cast iron case or alum?

cast iron

cowboy63b
01-04-2011, 06:03 PM
i also had the 249 in mine, swaped for a 242, then swaped with a built 231 (AA SYE, wide chain kit, 6 pinion plant., 2 lo,) wanting to throw NWF black box in between it and tranny for an extra low, in my short time wheeling ive learned that gearing is better than raw horsepower while crawling.

ATL ZJ
01-04-2011, 06:12 PM
205 is a cast iron case or alum?

big ass heavy cast iron

rodd88
01-04-2011, 07:20 PM
I purchased a stock 242 off my friend for $50. I'm looking into a sye. I need to tear into it because he told me it would pop in and out of 4lo, but the rest of the settings worked fine.

Jeepin' Wolf
01-04-2011, 08:23 PM
The stock 242-HD in the Banana has served me well. Exceptionally well as a matter of fact right up until I decided to put an SYE last year and all hell broke loose. $400 later a donor 75k mile 242 is in and I expect it'll do a good job as well (so long as I don't decide to fuck with the innards again). Thought of 231 for strength but I've never broke anything on it - though I wheel like a girl so maybe that has something to do with it - and now with the SYE my teeth are no longer shaken out of my mouth from driveline vibrations so it's all good. Plus I get to play with the lever for all kinds of nonsensical driving conditions. The only thing I wish for is that it had a bit more crawl ratio but that's a minor quip.

fredr1980
01-04-2011, 09:07 PM
Was running a 242 with a home made "hack-n-tap" slip yoke eliminator, basically using a 27-spline CV yoke from Tom Woods. Now running a flipped 231/D300 doubler, the D300 is twin sticked using some TJ atlas shifters I was able to make work and the 231 is basically manually shifted (I crawl under the Jeep and shift it when I first get on the trail, takes all of 5 seconds) until I figure out some type of cable shifter that doesn't necessitate a hole being cut in the floor. This set up works for me as I always ran in 4-low on the trail when I had the 242 and just shifted the tranny as needed for more or less reduction, plus I don't do any high speed baja type stuff so driving over 25-30 mph on the trail in not needed. The reduction (7.12:1) and in turn the control is pretty crazy when I put the D300 in to low on technical stuff. Probably upgrading the rear output on the D300 as soon as I see a vendor do so some type of promo on a 32-spline rear output as that is definitely the weak spot when it's in double low.

Fred R.

cLAYH
01-06-2011, 12:22 AM
Oringinally I swapped out my 249 for a 242. But I could never seem to get teh linkage setup right and ended up ruining two cases. Seems it wouldn't engage into 4wd all the way and I ended up stripping the synchros out resulting in 2wd low.

Now running a bone stock(other than a input shaft swap) 231 from an XJ. No SYE needed still running the stock shaft but have been considering a SYE just so that if I damage the rear shaft I can take out the rear drive shaft and not lose the oil.

I saw something once about someone using a t-case from a Dodge truck(I think it was a 241D not to be confused with a 241J from the Rubicon) and it bolted right in to a V8 ZJ, I've seen some that had fixed out shafts but that may have been an older passenger side drop case....

MUDDTRACKS
01-06-2011, 05:01 AM
In my 98 zj im running a 231 bolted to a aw-4 no sye or dc rear shaft. 4.88 gears with 37's.

Im running maybe 6"s of lift and 2-3"s stretch.

The 2.72 gear works well with the aw-4. Most times when crawling im in 2nd then when it gets tuff i drop down to 1st.

4 to 1 is just to low i think for east coast wheeling.

If I could have a t-case setup anyway i wanted I would have 3 to 1 with (2hi N 4low) and twin stick for front digs

geeteesjeep
01-06-2011, 09:02 AM
I'm running a 231 with 4:1 and SYE. The 4:1 is great on the rocks, too low for the trail. Put a 231/300 in my son's XJ. He loves it. It has cable shifters on the 300 and a direct shifter on the 231. Had to cut the crap out of the floor to get a flat belly pan.

rstrucks
01-06-2011, 11:13 PM
I am running a 231 in my ZJ on 37s. So far so good. I have never needed deeper gearing but I have wanted every once in a while. I like the low weight of the aluminum cases and so far I've never had any issues. Not sure I'd want to run too much more tire on one though. I'm running the AA HD SYE.

A 3 speed t-case would nice for around here where wheel speed is so important. Something like 1:1, 2.72:1 and 4 or 5:1 would be a good combo.

ratmonkey
01-08-2011, 12:53 AM
Just running a 231 with novak shifter right now. No major issues with it yet. Got a d300 waiting for some money to put in. with the 3500's first gear I haven't felt a need for deeper than 2.72:1 low. Heck, I can let the clutch out in third and it will nearly crawl up a stump. Stock 3.73 gears in my 8.8 and d30.

downtowncb
02-03-2011, 01:54 PM
Got a question for you guys. I was at Advance Adapters a while back pricing an Atlas II and was discussing with the salesman the merits of switching to 1350 u-joints front and rear. He said he would not recommend it because at that point you are moving your weak link to the output shaft of the transmission. This doesn't necessarily make sense to me. It would seem that in high range you're probably not going to break the output shaft without a significant amount more horsepower than I have, and in low range the strain on the output shaft of the transmission will be lower because it is before the reduction gears. What are people's thoughts? Has anyone else heard that by going to a stronger u-joint you are moving you're weak link into the transmission?

OverkillZJ
02-03-2011, 02:16 PM
Got a question for you guys. I was at Advance Adapters a while back pricing an Atlas II and was discussing with the salesman the merits of switching to 1350 u-joints front and rear. He said he would not recommend it because at that point you are moving your weak link to the output shaft of the transmission. This doesn't necessarily make sense to me. It would seem that in high range you're probably not going to break the output shaft without a significant amount more horsepower than I have, and in low range the strain on the output shaft of the transmission will be lower because it is before the reduction gears. What are people's thoughts? Has anyone else heard that by going to a stronger u-joint you are moving you're weak link into the transmission?

With an automatic transmission - who cares. It's very difficult to shockload the output shaft to the point that it'll break.

Of course you're always moving the weak link - but 1350 ujoints doesn't make the transmission output the next weak link unless you're running some SERIOUS axles front and rear.

That said, I ran 1410's and chromo built axle shafts front and rear, beat the crap out of it bouncing off the rev limiter, and never broken anything.

Your mileage might vary, build to your own purposes, but that is a rather large blanket statement.

ATL ZJ
02-03-2011, 02:22 PM
the obvious answer is don't run a pansy ass transmission :D

I think you're mostly right about the location of the reduction although any part can break. i've never believed in purposely introducing a weak link just for the sake of serviceability.

downtowncb
02-03-2011, 04:15 PM
the obvious answer is don't run a pansy ass transmission :D

I think you're mostly right about the location of the reduction although any part can break. i've never believed in purposely introducing a weak link just for the sake of serviceability.

So what, now a 4L60E is a pansy ass transmission to you?! Ass haha

Thanks, you guys just confirmed what I thought.

ATL ZJ
02-03-2011, 04:26 PM
Ha, I was just talking in general. I'd run a built 4l60 an atlas with my current HP