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dp96zj
08-03-2010, 08:02 PM
Well, I got an email from the technicians at SPAL and they said this:



The FAN-PWM is not compatible with the Ford Taurus fan. You probably have some other issue regarding the wiring. The fan will not come on when the fan light on the controller is not on. We vary the ground side of the fan for the variable speed function and it appears your fan is grounding to the chassis somehow completing the circuit to make your fan turn on. The controller should have the status light on when the ignition is on if wired correctly. Since the controller is not compatible with your fan, further troubleshooting is not needed. The Taurus fan has too high of a current draw for the PWM's capability. Here is the disclaimer on our website:



PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING: The FAN-PWM-V3 is not intended for use with fans that draw more current than 30amps continuously. This includes (but not limited to) SPAL extreme performance fans, Ford Taurus fans and Mark VIII fans.


It's too bad the website I bought it from, a major SPAL retailer, had none of this information listed on their website. Also, the installation sheet that I linked to awhile back that is posted on a1electric.com (the place I bought the controller); the instructions are written by SPAL themselves, and mentions NOTHING about the Taurus fan incompatibility. Now since they're completely worthless, does anyone have any idea how I can get this to work with my heep? My first step is to get the engine running (as soon as I replace this coolant temp sensor connector it should run), then I can work my way around the fan controller.

PilotAustin
08-03-2010, 08:10 PM
go down to advance auto and pick up part number 226204 Imperial thermostatic controller. Its 35.89. Ill email you my schematic on how I wired it up if you want.

List:
226204 Controller http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Adjustable-Thermostatic-Fan-Control-Imperial_3670006-P_N6003C_P|GRP2061A____ (http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Adjustable-Thermostatic-Fan-Control-Imperial_3670006-P_N6003C_P%7CGRP2061A____)
30amp normallly open relay
3 way toggle
10 and 12 guage wire
Butt connectors
Spade Connects
Ring terminals

dp96zj
08-03-2010, 08:13 PM
go down to advance auto and pick up part number 226204 Imperial thermostatic controller. Its 35.89. Ill email you my schematic on how I wired it up if you want.

List:
226204 Controller
30amp normallly open relay
3 way toggle
10 and 12 guage wire
Butt connectors
Spade Connects
Ring terminals

I would, but since I already dropped $130 on this thing, I'm gonna make it work.

PilotAustin
08-03-2010, 08:15 PM
send me the schematics if you can and Ill see what we can do. You will probably need to use more relays in the system if your controller cant put out the output.:-D kinda reversed it

dp96zj
08-03-2010, 08:18 PM
send me the schematics if you can and Ill see what we can do. You will probably need to use more relays in the system if your controller cant put out the output.:-D kinda reversed it

Here are the instructions the company put out. I have it setup to run as shown on page 16 as numbered on the pdf sheets (or page 17 as numbered by the adobe program). It's the page titled "Single Fan OEM Sensor". If you look on the page before that, it lists where the wires are going.

http://www.a1electric.com/spal/specs/FAN-PWM-V3.pdf

The thing is, if the ground wire for the fan is grounded, the fan runs perfectly, so I think the controller can handle it. Where did you tap into for your "switched ignition" input?

PilotAustin
08-03-2010, 08:22 PM
inside the passenger kicker fuse panel thingy, i stuck a wire in the radio fuse and then put the fuse in to hold it for now. I have my switch set up for Auto/low- off - constant High.

dp96zj
08-11-2010, 11:04 PM
I've made progress, but not enough.

I was able to tap into a working "switched ignition source", and now the controller is functioning (the LED's are lighting up), albeit there are two "error codes" being displayed on it and the fan doesn't kick on. The first one is:

CODE 2: Fan Not Found Or Fan Speed Error
The FAN-PWM is not sensing a fan or the fan is not functioning properly. Verify
the connections and operation. A brushed DC motor MUST be connected to the
fan output or the unit will report an error code. Possible use with very low power
(<4A) fans and non SPAL products may also cause Fan Not Found Error code.
SPAL USA will not guarantee this product’s functionality with non SPAL fans as
too often specifications are unknown.


The second code is this:

CODE 4: Module Over Current Error
Over current protection means that the output will SHUT DOWN if the measured
fan continuous run current increases above 30A for extended periods. If
running a fan that is approaching this amount of current draw (>25A), SPAL USA
recommends that the installation also include a status light so the operator will
be aware of the fan status.


My first issue to address is the fact that the fan will run constantly if it is grounded to the chassis, regardless of any settings on the controller. As soon as I tap the ground wire of the fan to the chassis, the fan will kick on; take the wire off, the fan kicks off. The same error messages appear on the controller. I have a feeling that Code 2 is related to this problem, but just don't know how to solve it. Also, the controller's installation guide doesn't mention what to do if the fan itself has a ground wire (it assumes a high-wire and a low-wire), that's why I naturally assumed to ground it.


It seems that, as the tech support guy mentioned, that the fan is drawing too much current (as mentioned by Code 4). However, this code may also be due to the fact that, when you touch the ground of the fan to the chassis, the connection sparks, and if you do it multiple times in a couple seconds, it will blow the inline 30A fuse that is drawing power from the battery. So either the fan is drawing too much power, or these sudden spikes in power when it's grounded are causing it to throw the code. But then again, once the inline fuse is blown and the controller is reset, the Code 4 still exists, so I think the problem is still due to the Taurus fan naturally drawing too much power.



If anyone wants to look at the Codes listing, or wiring schematics, the "walkthrough" is here, and the error codes are on page 22:
http://www.a1electric.com/spal/specs/FAN-PWM-V3.pdf


I wish I had more time, but I only have a week or so to get this fixed, because it's time to head back to school. If I cant get it settled out I'm gonna have to take out the Taurus fan and go back to the mechanical fan, but I'd hate to have do that.

PilotAustin
08-12-2010, 12:06 PM
Try running a relay to run the fan motor itself. This will cut the draw down TREMENDOUSLY.

dp96zj
08-14-2010, 12:50 AM
I've been working a ton recently, so no new developments, mainly just researching and trying to find solutions.

Here's a drawing of what the wiring for my controller/fan currently looks like:

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/dp91990/MC%20Pics/Untitled-6.png


It's pretty similar to what the SPAL diagram is:

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/dp91990/MC%20Pics/Untitled2.png

And here's a chart that says where each of the wires from the controller is supposed to go:

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/dp91990/MC%20Pics/Untitled3.png

My main questions:


Although it sounds stupid, the fan's ground wire is supposed to be grounded to the chassis, right? BUT, when it's grounded to the chassis, the fan runs, regardless of whether the engine is on or off. This makes me believe that I need to solve this issue before I put a relay in.
I'm assuming the Taurus fan's "Hi-Speed" wire is the "Fan Positive" mentioned by SPAL, and the "Lo-Speed" is the negative?
Through y'alls input on this issue, I'm looking at getting a 40A or 50A relay, and putting it in following these directions noted on another forum I found:

http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24484 post #6


I would advise stepping up to a 40 amp or higher rated relay for use with the Taurus fan. If you want to use the secondary fan feature, you need to wire the relay according to:

#85 to grey wire from Spal PWM
#86 to ign. source
#87 to +12V battery source

#30 to fan +12V

I use HD 70 amp relays but you should be able to work with a 40 amp relay.If I follow that, then the:
#85 wire goes to the unoccupied gray SPAL wire
#86 wire goes to the ignition source, orange "switched ignition" wire
#87 to the red wire that leads to -> 30A fuse -> battery
#30 to the red wire leading to the fan positive wire (currently wired to the Taurus fan's high speed)

The SPAL instructions kind of mention using the gray wire for this purpose as well:

When the ‘FAN’ LED lights RED, a negative output will be sent on the gray wire.
This gray wire can be used to trigger a fan relay, an indicator light, etc. If you are
using dual fans with the recommended wiring setup (refer to pages 18/19) your
2nd fan will turn on full speed at this time.
IfEh?

PilotAustin
08-14-2010, 01:22 AM
ok i just went out to the heep and the color codes for power on MY fan are:
Brown with yellow stripe- High
Brown with Orange stripe- Low
the other is the ground

the fan should have 3 wires as mentioned above. On the relay are you using a normally open or normally closed?? just making sure you are getting the right one

oh and the wiring from that other forum is for a secondary fan, not a 2 speed fan. UNLESS, they are using only the secondary fan and not the primary for some reason.:rolleyes:
someone else needs to chime in.


edit- you need to unhook that fan and hook up the red wire to the low side and the fan ground to the black. Both the red and black cannot be hooked up to both positives. That might be your problem

dp96zj
08-14-2010, 01:39 AM
ok i just went out to the heep and the color codes for power on MY fan are:
Brown with yellow stripe- High
Brown with Orange stripe- Low
the other is the ground

the fan should have 3 wires as mentioned above. On the relay are you using a normally open or normally closed?? just making sure you are getting the right one

oh and the wiring from that other forum is for a secondary fan, not a 2 speed fan. UNLESS, they are using only the secondary fan and not the primary for some reason.:rolleyes:
someone else needs to chime in.


edit- you need to unhook that fan and hook up the red wire to the low side and the fan ground to the black. Both the red and black cannot be hooked up to both positives. That might be your problem

I'm not sure on which type of relay to use, and since you pointed out that they were talking about a secondary fan, now I'm kinda confused on how I'd wire the relay, or even what type of relay to use.

As for the fan wiring, you're saying that I need to hook up the low-speed to the red wire (SPAL positive), and taurus fan ground wire to the black wire (SPAL negative), right? So what do I do with the taurus fan "hi-speed wire" (brown w/yellow stripe)?

For the record, my wire colors are the same as yours so that makes it a bit less confusing :D

PilotAustin
08-14-2010, 01:49 AM
Yes on the wiring. the ground on the fan is the ground for both high and low.


ok your 2 million dollar controller is just like my 35 dollar one.... just sayin:cool:

The controller from what i have read is a dual fan one speed controller. If you want to run the high side you might want to do it with a switch inside. and one relay. Ill scan in a picture of how I did it like I said I would tomorrow. Ran a 3 way toggle Auto - Off - High. Still have not hooked up the high side but auto/ low seems to be working ok for me.

ill PM you tomorrow

dp96zj
08-14-2010, 01:56 AM
Yes on the wiring. the ground on the fan is the ground for both high and low.


ok your 2 million dollar controller is just like my 35 dollar one.... just sayin:cool:

The controller from what i have read is a dual fan one speed controller. If you want to run the high side you might want to do it with a switch inside. and one relay. Ill scan in a picture of how I did it like I said I would tomorrow. Ran a 3 way toggle Auto - Off - High. Still have not hooked up the high side but auto/ low seems to be working ok for me.

ill PM you tomorrow

Sounds good.

The main reason that I went with the controller was to avoid the whole wiring thing, I was hoping that I could follow the simple instructions and wire it up correctly and it would magically work. Obviously it hasn't been that way :rolleyes: Looking back, yeah the relay-only system probably would've been MUCH simpler, but ya live and learn!

Oh, and it didn't cost 2 million :flipoff2:

Hockinaloogie
08-14-2010, 08:01 AM
ok your 2 million dollar controller is just like my 35 dollar one.... just sayin:cool:




I dont remember having this much of a complication with the el cheapo I got from autozone. Hi Lo and Spliced into the A/C and the on/off/on switch. I think mine was like 20 bucks or something. I agree, I think this web site might help you out dude..

http://www.excedrin.com/excedrin-migraine.shtml





...

PilotAustin
08-14-2010, 12:16 PM
I dont remember having this much of a complication with the el cheapo I got from autozone. Hi Lo and Spliced into the A/C and the on/off/on switch. I think mine was like 20 bucks or something. I agree, I think this web site might help you out dude..

http://www.excedrin.com/excedrin-migraine.shtml





...
i cant believe you actually looked up that site.... kudos

PilotAustin
08-14-2010, 01:14 PM
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/kirmit77/Diagram.png

As you can see there is two relays. The smaller 30 amp relay is to shut off power to the low side so I can run the high side and not have both high and low running at the same time. Basically you run the big relay on the high side due to the controller cannot output that amount of amps and probably does not have a big enough wire.


Really you need a 8 gauge wire to run the high so nothing melts I THINK.

enjoy :booya:

Hockinaloogie
08-14-2010, 03:28 PM
i cant believe you actually looked up that site.... kudos


Google is not rocket science..


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=excedrin+migraine (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=excedrin+migraine)



.

PilotAustin
08-14-2010, 04:23 PM
Google is not rocket science..


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=exedrin+migraine (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=exedrin+migraine)



.

Very funny
:flipoff2:

PilotAustin
08-15-2010, 03:55 PM
oh forgot to tell you....... its spelled exCedrin. The google thing spelled it wrong.......

Hockinaloogie
08-15-2010, 04:06 PM
lol i am not a rocket scientist either.. :smt075

Anyways getting off topic. Back to the SPAL and Taurus fan..