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View Full Version : Mid 1990s Powerstroke or Cummins



BigClay
04-22-2010, 01:15 PM
I am looking at buying a mid 90s Powerstroke or Cummins. The truck will have some miles on it (probably 220k or more), so what should I look for? What should I avoid? Manual or Auto?

ATL ZJ
04-22-2010, 01:39 PM
At that age, I would lean toward manual. Avoid mid 90s chevys :smt037

ajmorell
04-22-2010, 01:56 PM
At that age, I would lean toward manual. Avoid mid 90s chevys :smt037

What, your not a fan of the 6.5? :D

I would agree with trying to find a manual, unless you know the tranny has been replaced recently and would prefer an auto. I've heard good things about the 12V and the 7.3 so I don't think you can go wrong with either. I *think* that there was a period of time when the 7.3 was non-turbo and I think it was early 90s but I'm not sure. I would definitely look for a turbo'd version. They'll both pull well but most of the comments I've read say the non-turbo doesn't get out of it's own way

paulkeith
04-22-2010, 02:07 PM
From a powerplant standpoint, this is a no-brainer to me. 12V Cummins, period. The cummins is far superior and a significantly more upgradeable platform than the 7.3 of that generation (or any, really...). For the truck as a whole though, it's ultimately always a tough call because the dodge trucks themselves seem to be kind of shitty. My buddy bought a 01.5 5.9 HO 6spd around the time I bought my '02 7.3, and at this point my truck is in substantially better shape. His paint is falling apart, interior is in shambles including an entirely broken and trashed dash, torn seats, etc. Basically all the standard mid 90s chrysler shortfalls.

If you do go with the 7.3, you'd need a 94+ to get a direct injected turbo "powerstroke" motor, and there are a range of mods to get them pretty set up in power, like a swap to the 17* superduty HPOP, installing an intercooler, downpipe upgrades, etc. I actually really like that body style too.

Having owned a handshaker superduty 7.3 for about 4 years, I'd honestly recommend you get an automatic. Automatics lend themselves very well to turbodiesels and really increase their daily driveability. You will be able to build boost right off the line, hold boost between shifts, and it will just be generally more fun to drive. If you are aware of auto-tranny shortfalls going in, and are prepared to put in an excellent purpose-built rebuild unit, or buy a recently rebuilt one, you should be OK for probably your use life. There is something fun about rowing 5 gears before you're going 40mph though :D:D

Are you planning on modifications? Compression ignition is a fun road to go down. I love my truck.

1fox2go
04-22-2010, 02:15 PM
Hey my old man is selling is 90 dodge ram cummins, 3/4 ton 4wd 180k miles, auto matic, dana 70 rear dana 60 front with manual locking hubs. Hes the second owner and has serviced it since it rolled off the lot

Needs paint and has a crack in the windshield, other than that, it would drive across the country no problem


Let me know if you are interested

Might be a little older than what you are looking for but its a nice truck. Gets good fuel mileage. Has boost and trans temp guages as well

BigClay
04-22-2010, 02:18 PM
This truck will not be a DD, it will be a tow rig and a good 'ole work truck on the weekens. I don't have any mods in mind mainly because I am a diesel newb. What would be some good mods on the 12v and the 7.3?


Edit: 1Fox2go PM sent

1fox2go
04-22-2010, 02:33 PM
12vs are great, turn some screws, swap some parts and good to go.

pm replied

paulkeith
04-22-2010, 02:44 PM
Diesels are pretty fun in the sense that (within reason) 1) add more diesel and 2) more power comes out.

I'm by no means a pro on 12v tuning, but I understand that just some fueling mods and injector mods and you can be putting down some pretty serious numbers.

For a basic freshening though, I think any freeflowing 3.5 or 4" exhaust plus a large open element (paper only!) filter, and basic fueling mods (tuner for the 7.3), will get you set up pretty well. Then like i said, for the non-superduty 7.3s, a superduty HPOP and intercooler will help out a lot.

You will need to do auto tranny work if you start tuning though, just like most handshakers will likely need a clutch to hold the power. And always buy gauges to monitor EGT and tranny temp on an auto.

BigClay
04-22-2010, 02:57 PM
Gotcha. BTW, why are they called handshakers?

paulkeith
04-22-2010, 03:02 PM
Cuz the shifter shakes around while your hand is on it. :D

BigClay
04-22-2010, 03:03 PM
LOL, gotcha!

1fox2go
04-22-2010, 03:07 PM
Youd be surprised that just by turning up the fuel slightly on the 12vs that fuel economy increases as does power

Like paulkeith said in moderation things will hold up and stay together, the diesels that you see pouring out black smoke are actually hurting themselves, that excess fuel has to go somewhere, and some ends up getting passed the rings and into the oil

rstrucks
04-22-2010, 04:09 PM
Automatics lend themselves very well to turbodiesels and really increase their daily driveability. You will be able to build boost right off the line, hold boost between shifts, and it will just be generally more fun to drive.


Whuuuuuuuut? :D You must be crazy.


Unless I have left knee problems I seriously doubt I will ever own an auto equipped tow rig again. I love towing with my '94 Dodge 5spd. All the power I need (with just a couple of mods) and free compression braking. My preference is almost always for a manual so take that FWIW.

I too really like the 7.3 Powerstrokes and was considering one of those along with a Cummins when I was looking. I just found a Cummins first and I'm glad I did. I get an honest 21mpg on the highway with just an atv in the bed and cruising 70-75.

Go with the 12v. Mine has a big ass paper air filter, 5" exhaust (probably too big) and a fuel plate (along with 202,xxx miles on it). I've pulled about a 50' 3 car hauler with 2 late 70's 4 door sedans on it about 700 miles with it and never really had to down shift into 4th if I kept momentum up. Plus when I'm towing my ZJ I actually get better mileage than I would if I drove my Jeep to and from the trail.

Poser 5.9
04-22-2010, 04:17 PM
X 2 on turning up the fuel slightly, I think I remember that if you turn up the fuel pressure,add marine injectors along with your exhaust and air filter mods you can come close to doubling the factory rated hp. Also my dad has a 24v with a 6 speed manual and it seems like all you do is shift gears in that truck!

1fox2go
04-22-2010, 04:38 PM
6 spd ewww, I have a 99 24v 5spd. Mine is getting low-mid 20s empty cruising, towing I would have to guess 16-19 on the back roads. Havent been able to tow anything on the interstates so cant tell what my mileage would be on a long straight tow.

Paulkeith is talking about DD duty for the truck. I may have to agree, if you drive your truck everyday and dont tow a lot, auto is probably the way to go. The older automatics arent junk like these new piece of shits either.

Stroked X
04-22-2010, 05:02 PM
cummins

paulkeith
04-22-2010, 05:27 PM
Whuuuuuuuut? :D You must be crazy.


Unless I have left knee problems I seriously doubt I will ever own an auto equipped tow rig again. I love towing with my '94 Dodge 5spd. All the power I need (with just a couple of mods) and free compression braking. My preference is almost always for a manual so take that FWIW.


Paulkeith is talking about DD duty for the truck. I may have to agree, if you drive your truck everyday and dont tow a lot, auto is probably the way to go. The older automatics arent junk like these new piece of shits either.

Bingo. For a straight tow rig, 5 or 6 spd 100%. But if you are gonna drive it every day like i did my superduty for 3.5 years, it gets really old really fast. Can't get out of its own way off the line, and it stoplight/city traffic, that really started to frustrate me with its 'sluggishness'

I'm definitely in the "a manual for 99% of cases" camp. After hating every second of the 42re in my 4.0 ZJ i told myself I'd never own another vehicle with a slushbox, and until the 5.9 that held true. BUT... Spending enough time in Atlanta traffic I have found the merit of an auto, I just realized it needs to be spun by a lot of HP and TQ for it to satisfy me as a driver. I think for DD'ing a diesel, a well built auto wins to get the boost flowing right away, and makes em really fun. :D

Jeeptech01
04-22-2010, 07:02 PM
Cummins here. I work on em so I may be biased though. Dont know much about the other one. Manual IMO.

rstrucks
04-22-2010, 11:07 PM
Bingo. For a straight tow rig, 5 or 6 spd 100%. But if you are gonna drive it every day like i did my superduty for 3.5 years, it gets really old really fast. Can't get out of its own way off the line, and it stoplight/city traffic, that really started to frustrate me with its 'sluggishness'

I'm definitely in the "a manual for 99% of cases" camp. After hating every second of the 42re in my 4.0 ZJ i told myself I'd never own another vehicle with a slushbox, and until the 5.9 that held true. BUT... Spending enough time in Atlanta traffic I have found the merit of an auto, I just realized it needs to be spun by a lot of HP and TQ for it to satisfy me as a driver. I think for DD'ing a diesel, a well built auto wins to get the boost flowing right away, and makes em really fun. :D

I was just kidding around. If I had to DD in heavy stop and go traffic I may share your opinion. I just have never had a driving experience improved or made more fun by an automatic.

Plus I buy older used vehicles and the last thing I want to do is pay ~ half the purchase price for a built transmission.

paulkeith
04-22-2010, 11:51 PM
Its all good in the hood :D I was just offering my experience DDing the thing. I think it'd almost be worth it having the auto just to be able to powerbrake, build like 10lbs of boost, and launch in 4WD. :D

They are a pain in the ass though. I've heard even when guys drop ~$3k on the box and $1k on the TC, they are still opening it back up 50,000 miles later, and that would really piss me off. They become a wear part and a damn expensive wear part at that.

1fox2go
04-23-2010, 09:33 AM
Yea but those guys are probably pushing at least 850 ft/lbs of torque and thrash the living shit out of it everyday. Then bitch when it breaks because, "It's a diesel, this thing is suppose to be tough"

It you drive like you have some sense, and know the limits of the vehicle, diesel or gas, keep up with its maintenance and take care of it, it will last

paulkeith
04-23-2010, 09:35 AM
While I agree and understand the point you're getting at, if I dropped $4-5,000 on a TRANSMISSION, it better be able to take any 1,000 ftlbs of torque i throw at it.

rstrucks
04-23-2010, 09:55 AM
While I agree and understand the point you're getting at, if I dropped $4-5,000 on a TRANSMISSION, it better be able to take any 1,000 ftlbs of torque i throw at it.

Agree. I would be less than pleased if I EVER had to replace a 5K dollar trans. That would probably "total" my truck!

BigClay
04-23-2010, 10:30 AM
Anyone heard of certain Cummins blocks having cracking issues?

1fox2go
04-23-2010, 12:00 PM
the second gens late 97s-02s. Mainly 24valves. They call it the 53 block because it has 53 stamped on the side and supposedly a weaker casting. Seems to happen under extreme pulling conditions.

My dad works on these trucks everyday for the past 20 years. In all his time hes only seen one block crack, and it was because the truck was heavily modded and was pulling way more than it should, the motor mount ripped a hole in the block.

Not going to say it cant happen to the average joe however. The guys on cummins forum say it happens just to happen. Then there are guys on there with the 53 block and use their truck like a truck with no issues.

The issue from what I read is that the water jackets just below the freeze plugs on the passenger side are thinner, causing a crack which leaks coolant.

rstrucks
04-23-2010, 12:01 PM
All you need to know about the "53" blocks.

http://dieseldatabase.com/read.php?id=185

paulkeith
04-23-2010, 12:31 PM
I've heard just as many horror stories as "never gonna matter" stories. Just check the block on a truck you're interested in and if its a 53 and you think its gonna matter, keep looking. There are tons of cummins trucks out there.

What you might need though is the killer dowel pin repair, complete with Trucks! happy/sad graphics :D :D

1fox2go
04-23-2010, 12:44 PM
I didnt know about it until after I bought my truck and got on cumminsforum to see what all I can do with it.

I wanted one for a long time, found this one, I liked it, so I bought it. Dont know if its a 53 block or not, if it is oh well. If something happens I guess I will be shopping for a new engine...

I wouldnt let it sway you into avoiding the 53 block at all costs unless you plan on towing all the time. Finding a good diesel truck thats in good shape is getting harder. A lot of them around here have been worked pretty hard.

cambertoes
09-20-2010, 05:47 PM
Hi, I'm a giant douche.