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BigDaveZJ
04-10-2010, 07:53 PM
So there's a chance that we may sell Pam's ZJ over the summer and go down to one Jeep for a multitude of reasons. One of the downfalls to this is how to get our camping trailer to and from the trails. Last summer my ZJ went on the carhauler, and Pam's ZJ towed the M416 until we hit the trail, then I pulled it with the ZJ. I could just hook it up to my ZJ and drive it to the trail, but if I have a tow rig and trailer, I don't really want to leave it at home when I could need it to get home.

One option I've thought of is to sell our 16' trailer and use the money from that towards a ~24' trailer, which would hold my ZJ and the M416 together just fine. This is the most likely option, but also adds $1500 to our investment into trailers.

If I could figure out someway to get the M416 into the bed of the truck, that might be a cheaper, although more of a PITA alternative. From front to back it's about 9', and the axle is the same width as a Jeep. It weighed 600lbs in stock form, and fully loaded for a trip I'm guessing >1000lbs for sure. Not exactly weight I want up real high, and I would need an easy way to actually get it in and out of the bed.

Outside of a tandem tow with the M416 off the back of the car hauler is there an "easy" option that I'm overlooking?

fpkites
04-11-2010, 12:00 AM
Tandem is the only thing I can think of - hoisting 1k lbs in and out of the bed would bring the suck, and the length is just a bit more than the 6' of bed on the truck.

LouisianaZJ
04-11-2010, 12:40 AM
tandem, may or may not be legal in your area

or put all the crap in the zj or truck bed

BigDaveZJ
04-11-2010, 02:30 AM
Tandem here is legal I believe if the lead trailer is a goose/fifth wheel, my car hauler is not.

If I had some ramps that could go from the deck of the trailer to the tailgate, backing the M416 up those ramps wouldn't be too hard, but it'd be too wide to sit between the bed rails. I think I'm just gonna have to suck it up and get a bigger trailer.

Putting all the crap in the ZJ or truck bed will work fine for day trips or when we're in a hotel, but when we take the M416 with us we'll be gone for 5+ days at a time, in different spots most nights, and covering several hundred trail miles over that time.

AgitatedPancake
04-11-2010, 12:02 PM
If you drop the tongue under the ZJ and roll it as far under as you could, could you squeeze it onto the trailer?

I just pulled up some images off google, and it looks like you could butt the trailer up right against the rear bumper
http://www.dso4x4.com/ih8rds/projects/M416/thread/done.jpg

LouisianaZJ
04-11-2010, 03:23 PM
w/a 16" trailer im guessing the ZJ is taking up most of the real estate

BigDaveZJ
04-11-2010, 03:26 PM
w/a 16" trailer im guessing the ZJ is taking up most of the real estate

Yup. ZJ's are about 15' bumper to bumper.

Sporer65
04-11-2010, 04:31 PM
Tandem here is legal I believe if the lead trailer is a goose/fifth wheel, my car hauler is not.


Might want to check that again. A lot of times, tandem is about overall length. So as long as the car hauler+trailer are under a certain length (I want to say 35 ft for some reason) then you're fine.


Or you could always just buy a flat bed for your truck and just back the trailer up onto that. But that's just me. I'm a sucker for a flat bed on a 3/4 or 1 ton truck.

CrawlerReady
04-12-2010, 12:04 AM
Might want to check that again. A lot of times, tandem is about overall length. So as long as the car hauler+trailer are under a certain length (I want to say 35 ft for some reason) then you're fine.



It's ~64' here in Utah, I'd imagine it's more than 35' elsewhere that was legal.

Sporer65
04-12-2010, 10:29 PM
It's ~64' here in Utah, I'd imagine it's more than 35' elsewhere that was legal.

Probably right. Just for some reason, 35 ft was the number in my head.

sasdranger
05-01-2010, 03:56 PM
64's a lot of trailer(s) for a 3/4 or 1 ton.. most Semi box trailers are what? 52?


anddd dug up from the dead. oops

BigDaveZJ
05-01-2010, 05:05 PM
I think they were talking 64' overall length maybe??

K2
05-01-2010, 05:54 PM
I think they were talking 64' overall length maybe??

I think they are. I think CO is 71'6", something weird. My neighbor has a 4 door Dodge long bed, fifthwheel, and a boat, he is ~4" too long to be legal, but...

well you can decide how far you can push the letter of the law.

CrawlerReady
05-01-2010, 06:58 PM
64's a lot of trailer(s) for a 3/4 or 1 ton.. most Semi box trailers are what? 52?


anddd dug up from the dead. oops

Yes. Like Dave said, ~64' is including the length of the tow rig. ;)

Sudz
05-01-2010, 08:53 PM
stack that mofo

http://www.doubledecksporttrailers.com/

K2
05-01-2010, 09:01 PM
http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=166778

sasdranger
05-01-2010, 09:36 PM
yea 64' isn't too bad including a giant ass tow rig lol

Cody
05-03-2010, 01:36 PM
For a lot of people the little expedition trailers create more problems than they solve. that's why I sold mine.

personally, have a rig that you have to trailer to and from longer expedition trails kind of defeats the purpose.

BigDaveZJ
05-03-2010, 02:09 PM
personally, have a rig that you have to trailer to and from longer expedition trails kind of defeats the purpose.

That's part of what the roof project was all about. And for the stuff that's closer to home, I won't mess with the truck and trailer. But this summer when we do Ouray, or if went out to San Rafael Swell or somewhere in UT, it'd be nice to be able to just throw my busted crap on a trailer, jump in the truck, and head for home.

Cody
05-03-2010, 07:29 PM
I'm not criticizing you--I just think you're starting to go through the same pattern that I did with vehicles so I have some opinions based on my experience. (me, opinions? no way!)

I definitely understand the convenience of having a safety net in case of breakage, but if you have to plan your long distance trips around the ability to circle back to your trailer you'll effectively eliminate some pretty awesome routes. For a trip to Moab, a trailer is awesome (I'm looking to line one up for GSW which is sadly about the only trip throughout the year that I wheel hard enough terrain to make a trailer practical), but for a trip through the Maze or into the Swell it places some unnecessary logistical restrictions on the itinerary.

Think of how many more trips you could afford if you sold your rig, put a little more money into Pam's and sold your truck/trailer? It's not like you're doing trails in your ZJ that Pam's ZJ couldn't do with a little extra love, and the truck while convenient, does take up a lot of resources. How much easier would a trip to the swell be if you didn't have to prep a truck, a trailer, the m416, and a rig then drag it all out of town?

Hell, build Pam's ZJ up so it can handle 35's safely, sell your tow rig and pick up a 4 door taco. You'll have a truck for hauling gear and/or commuting, a ZJ to beat on more difficult trails (and lets be honest, for posterity) and probably the mostest awesomest expedition/camping/long distance wheelin rig out there the 4 door taco. A ZJ built the right way on 35's is more than fine getting itself to and from Moab and, worst case scenario, you have enough friends around you with trucks and trailers that you could likely borrow one once a year for the trips you go on where breakage is more likely.

K2
05-03-2010, 08:57 PM
I'm not criticizing you--I just think you're starting to go through the same pattern that I did with vehicles so I have some opinions based on my experience. (me, opinions? no way!)

I definitely understand the convenience of having a safety net in case of breakage, but if you have to plan your long distance trips around the ability to circle back to your trailer you'll effectively eliminate some pretty awesome routes. For a trip to Moab, a trailer is awesome (I'm looking to line one up for GSW which is sadly about the only trip throughout the year that I wheel hard enough terrain to make a trailer practical), but for a trip through the Maze or into the Swell it places some unnecessary logistical restrictions on the itinerary.

Think of how many more trips you could afford if you sold your rig, put a little more money into Pam's and sold your truck/trailer? It's not like you're doing trails in your ZJ that Pam's ZJ couldn't do with a little extra love, and the truck while convenient, does take up a lot of resources. How much easier would a trip to the swell be if you didn't have to prep a truck, a trailer, the m416, and a rig then drag it all out of town?

Hell, build Pam's ZJ up so it can handle 35's safely, sell your tow rig and pick up a 4 door taco. You'll have a truck for hauling gear and/or commuting, a ZJ to beat on more difficult trails (and lets be honest, for posterity) and probably the mostest awesomest expedition/camping/long distance wheelin rig out there the 4 door taco. A ZJ built the right way on 35's is more than fine getting itself to and from Moab and, worst case scenario, you have enough friends around you with trucks and trailers that you could likely borrow one once a year for the trips you go on where breakage is more likely.

And you can use the trailer to tow all of the tires you will need to get you home!

BigDaveZJ
05-03-2010, 09:17 PM
I've definitely thought about getting something along the lines of this for a DD/light wheeler: http://denver.craigslist.org/ctd/1714970079.html

I don't want to DD the F250 much longer, at 160k it's nearing its useful life as a DD, but for the vast majority of our day trips and Moab trips having the trailer is very nice. I still enjoy pushing the limits of my ZJ, and since it's already setup to run 35's, I'd rather keep mine and sell Pam's.

So we'll see what happens. A little bigger trailer, and getting rid of Pam's ZJ in exchange for a DD double cab Taco that's an expedition rig/DD would be ideal, but pretty dang expensive.

Cody
05-04-2010, 12:42 AM
I certainly miss my truck and miss the shit out of my buggy and just like you I worked hard to get to the point that I had all of that stuff....but the buggy led to a truck...the truck led to a trailer....and all of that led to a house that had extra parking and taking care of all of that stuff took away my time and money from the thing that led me to it in the first place--going wheelin with my friends. Hopefully one day I'll have a buggy again but I have to be honest with myself because spending 50-60-100 days per year in Moab isn't an option for me anymore and I would have to make a south nigerian shit ton of money to justify a buggy...that requires a tow rig....that requires a car trailer....that requires parking...that I only use a dozen days per year. I have no desire to be a slave to my toys.

This is kind of an ongoing discussion on another board. The advent of the "overland expedition" movement has really just frenched up car camping to appeal to gear heads. Is it all about the comforts and extra stuff you have--the fridges, the roof top tents, the trailers, the showers etc, or is it about the trip and experience? If I had to deal with maintaining, prepping, and packing a tow rig, jeep trailer, jeep, m416 and all of the associated gear just for a five day trip, it would take the fun out of it for me. Look at this thread, it's about trying to find a way to haul a trailer on a trailer so you can go out. If your gear is keeping you from getting out, then I think the point has been missed.

I can prep and pack for 2 people for 5-7 days in about an hour (with room to spare--I hate my rear view being obstructed), and I can break camp and be on the trail again in 10 minutes. Kids, dogs, extra wives (and by "extra" I mean "a" wife) etc will all throw the equation out of balance and at that point space, comfort, and convenience come at a premium that is probably worth paying for.

BigDaveZJ
05-04-2010, 01:17 AM
Funny you mention car camping for gear heads, I originally bought my ZJ so I could go camping at cool spots in the mountains with NO intention of doing anything close to some of the stuff I've done with it. Kinda coming full circle, but I got hooked on pushing my rigs limits along the way.

For the most part I don't mind the wrenching and the up-keep. I'm not like chad and Trango where I wheel just to break something so I can come back and design and build something eleventy billion times stronger, but I do enjoy that aspect of all this. It's almost an experience in itself. Definitely different than spending a week with friends hundreds of miles from nowhere, but it can still be a good time.

The gadgets can be fun, but I'm certainly not looking to become a "glamper" as some on ExPo have coined it. If I spend a few days in the garage making a lid for my M416 that I can mount an RTT to that will get me in front of the campfire with a beer 20 minutes quicker at camp, that's a good payoff IMO.

Cody
05-04-2010, 02:13 AM
The gadgets can be fun, but I'm certainly not looking to become a "glamper" as some on ExPo have coined it. If I spend a few days in the garage making a lid for my M416 that I can mount an RTT to that will get me in front of the campfire with a beer 20 minutes quicker at camp, that's a good payoff IMO.

Having those accessories doesn't make you a glamper. Not being able to go camping without them does, and sacrificing time out on the trail so you can purchase a new accessory that is being masqueraded as a necessity does. Basically, being a slave to your fancy toys does. I don't think you're that way at all, but the number one critic of RTT's, expedition trailers, and their ilk also happens to be the guy that is one of the largest dealers for them.

Don't get me wrong, I've spent dozens of nights sleeping in RTT's over the past couple of years and they are awesome. They definitely aren't any faster up and down, and if you are base camping it then having to take it down to be mobile is kind of a PITA. The guys in our group with them aren't setup any sooner, but at 3 a.m. they sure were outside in a hurry taking them down and taking residence up in the cab of their truck when the 50-70 mph winds kicked up at the maze overlook a few weeks ago.

From a pure time accounting point, if you spend 20 hours and $1000 to make a lid and buy a tent for your m416, is that still worth it? Then when you go out you don't want to leave your expensive trailer at home, so you have to buy a bigger car trailer to haul it--that's another $500. Is that still worth it? Now the time spent maintaining the tow rig, the trailer, the m416 and the associated financial costs of those activities factored in, does that make still make it worth it? You may enjoy a lot of that stuff, so maybe it is.

It's like the story about the mexican fisherman...

http://www.protolink.com/MexicanFisherman.html

Shit, cut out all the extra stuff and just drink that beer. Life is easy :D For the cost of a RTT and a few days in the garage, you could spend a week camping on the beach in mexico drinking corona's, watching the sunset, and eating fish tacos. :D

I had an m416 with the same intent as you--to put a tent on it. But I decided to keep it simple and not haul another contraption on the trail and risk it's own flats and issues...and for what? I can fit everything I could possibly need in the jeep just fine. I can also cover ground a lot faster without it.

I hope you don't think I'm being a jerk about this. I'm just bored and playing the devil's advocate a little.

Sudz
05-04-2010, 10:37 AM
It's like the story about the mexican fisherman...

http://www.protolink.com/MexicanFisherman.html
good one :)

ATL ZJ
05-04-2010, 11:47 AM
Cody, you raise excellent points and I can relate... occasionally I find myself having to budget my time between normal life activities and stuff that has to be done before a wheeling trip. Deciding whether it's all worthwhile depends on whether you enjoy the process of modifying and maintaining your equipment.

The trails I enjoy running require well-setup equipment and prep work between trips. I know for a fact that I would not have fun stepping down to a less challenging wheeling experience. I'm pushing toward making the ratio of time in the garage to time on the trail be closer to 1:1. To me building something is more gratifying and relaxing than laying around eating chips and watching celebrities dance on tv. As long as I can do it when it doesn't interfere with other stuff I want to do, it's great.

Dave, I agree that you are treading an odd line between rockcrawling and adventure wheeling. Whatever you enjoy most, cater your setup towards that and ditch the stuff you don't need.

Ted_Z
05-04-2010, 12:01 PM
Cody, you have a great knack of putting things in perspective.

I still like getting out of town and exploring, wheeling, camping ect, but I think as we age, the gadgets help us keep the experience enjoyable. Sure, when I was 14 I didn't mind sleeping on the ground and roughing it a bit. But now with the family, dog etc the gadgets allow for me to keep going out.



... But I decided to keep it simple and not haul another contraption on the trail and risk it's own flats and issues...and for what? I can fit everything I could possibly need in the jeep just fine....

Unfortunetly I can't fit everything in the jeep anymore. The dog goes in the way back, the kid/baby seat in the back seat so the trailer is a must if we are all going. For the couple nights I'll be out on the White Rim trail before GSW, there's no need because its just me and a buddy.

Building my trailer has been a fun project in itself now that my ZJ is built close to where I want it to be. I've taken note of Dave's and other's experiences and as a result I don't think I'll ever take my ride bigger than its at now. I want to be able to drive it to Moab or to the local trails without the need of a deticated tow rig.

BigDaveZJ
05-04-2010, 12:29 PM
Shit, cut out all the extra stuff and just drink that beer. Life is easy :D For the cost of a RTT and a few days in the garage, you could spend a week camping on the beach in mexico drinking corona's, watching the sunset, and eating fish tacos. :D

I had an m416 with the same intent as you--to put a tent on it. But I decided to keep it simple and not haul another contraption on the trail and risk it's own flats and issues...and for what? I can fit everything I could possibly need in the jeep just fine. I can also cover ground a lot faster without it.

I hope you don't think I'm being a jerk about this. I'm just bored and playing the devil's advocate a little.

You're not being a jerk about anything. This is really what forums are about, someone who's BTDT providing feedback for others.

The money part of it kinda sucks, but I certainly didn't pick this hobby based on fiscal responsibility. And with what I have invested into the trailer so far, add the tent and the lid, if I decide a year or two from now it's rediculous, I honestly think I could get >80% of my investment out of it by selling it. Hell, beat to shit rusty trailers with original axles and 40 year old tires are selling left and right for what I've got in mine so far.

The "plan" is that we'll pack most of the trailer early in the year, and be able to head out at a moment's notice, just pack up food and clothes and we're gone. We'll see how it works out I guess.

Cody
05-04-2010, 01:04 PM
I still like getting out of town and exploring, wheeling, camping ect, but I think as we age, the gadgets help us keep the experience enjoyable. Sure, when I was 14 I didn't mind sleeping on the ground and roughing it a bit. But now with the family, dog etc the gadgets allow for me to keep going out.


Absolutely, and I can understand that. Especially with kids, dog, wife etc. Making them more comfortable not only means a more enjoyable time for you, but an easier time getting them to go more often so those luxuries actually equate to more trail time. That's the spirit and I'm sure one day I'll be in that position.

We had a guy come up from New Mexico to do a 6 day run through Beef Basin and into Moab from the south a couple years ago. He was in a big 100 series cruiser, decked out with everything, pulling a cool off-road pop up trailer. Just him, by himself. He was a nice enough guy, but it was a ridiculous setup for one person and he easily cost us two hours of time every day due to how much slower he had to go with the trailer. Two hours is the difference between watching the sunset over a steak and beer, and setting up in the dark.

Some people get caught up in having the most novel stuff, and that pursuit ends up costing them lots of their free time and can eliminate trips from their schedule. There is a quote in Walden that I always go back to


.....instead of studying how to make it worth men's while to buy my baskets,
I studied rather how to avoid the necessity of selling them.

Stuff begets more stuff.

I do realize that I am a little different than most of you guys in that I don't enjoy tinkering and working on things, so that skews my perspective. I would rather spend my time doing something else--snowboarding, hiking, brewing beer, floating a river etc. Sitting in the garage building or fixing stuff isn't something I grew up doing, so I'm not good at it and I tend to not like things I suck at.

BigDaveZJ
05-04-2010, 01:11 PM
I guess I haven't encountered this "slower pace" thing yet with my trailer. I'm around 400-500 dirt miles with it, and outside of it making my cooler into a giant blender, I haven't noticed a point in time where I had to slow down because of it. I found myself having to wait for others to catch up just as much as normal?

If I was packing for a 5 night trip for just me I would pack a little different, but outside of clothes and food for additional people/dogs and a smaller tent, it wouldn't really be all that different. I spent several hundred nights in tents growing up, and fell into the "if there's a chance I'll need it and it can fit, it goes with me" mindset. I definitely take "Be Prepared" a bit far sometimes for sure.

BigDaveZJ
05-04-2010, 03:14 PM
Oh, and damn you Cody for mentioning the double cab Taco's. All I've done so far today is look at Taco builds.

Cody
05-04-2010, 04:06 PM
Oh, and damn you Cody for mentioning the double cab Taco's. All I've done so far today is look at Taco builds.

Ya, tell me about it. Two of the guys that always go with me both have them....supercharged to boot. On big trips those guys routinely out pace me by about 15 minutes per hour. Granted I'm setup for 2" of uptravel and my body roll is an issue, but even with sways and airbumps that I'm hoping to get setup I don't think I'll be able to keep up.

When I went to Death Valley this past february I rode along in Kurt's (cruiser outfitters) double cab. I got to drive about 300 dirt miles in one day and those things just plane haul balls. On heavily washboarded and rutted out roads that I would probably do 40-50 on, we could easily do 60-75.

In a perfect world I would love a 4 door taco with a flippac, a buggy, a tow rig, trailer, a commuter car, a dirt bike, a cruiser, a freeway/roadtrip bike, a boat, kayak, etc etc. I want all of those things, but the financial burden of them is only part of the story. You have to also be able to spend the time with them to justify the cost, and that is the thing I have the hardest time finding. Time. The worlds most precious fixed resource.

K2
05-04-2010, 09:07 PM
Shit, cut out all the extra stuff and just drink that beer. Life is easy :D For the cost of a RTT and a few days in the garage, you could spend a week camping on the beach in mexico drinking corona's, watching the sunset, and eating fish tacos. :D

I have to disagree with this. I don't think you were being literal, but the message was there. That is one trip, you may have a great time, but now you need to save another $1500 to go again. So the math is actually backwards. If you put that $1500 into gadgets, you have gadgets and can go over and over. I love to shoot guns, but once I fire a round, it is gone, and I need to buy more. I bought a bow and all the gear, and I can shoot over and over without buying much more, just some upkeep.

Ted hit the nail on the head. I have 2 large dogs, a 4 year old and a wife who likes to be comfy. I have a trailer hitch basket thing, and a cargo top carrier. I stuff both of them to go out for a weekend of camping. So I would love a trailer, and of course your laundry list of items after I hit the powerball. But I am like Dave, and "be prepared" is at my core.

BigDaveZJ
05-04-2010, 09:26 PM
But I am like Dave, and "be prepared" is at my core.


I actually had a ScoutMaster tell me to stop bringing so much stuff on campouts. I asked him "has there ever been anything I needed that I didn't have?" I got to bring whatever I wanted after that. :cool:

cLAYH
05-04-2010, 10:55 PM
Here's how I do it:

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u92/clayhardock/ToyHauler%20Build/DSC_3614.jpg

I could see you doing this two ways, either put a hitch on the back of the gooseneck and hook the M416 on the back of it. Or put a smaller camper on instead of the big 5th wheel camper. This will leave more deck space to drive the ZJ and M416 up onto it.

Not sure what you laws are like where you are but up here you can only pull triples if your total length is under 65ft(including tow rig) and the first trailer must have a pin type of hitch(aka 5th wheel). Neither bumper mounted ball hitches OR bed mounted gooseneck balls are acceptable. Must be a 5th wheel hitch. That "goosneck" trailer in the pic has actually been converted to a 5th wheel style hitch.

I put that trailer together for under $10,000CDN. $4500 for the 5thwheel camper and $4500 for the 30ft gooseneck. Trailers seem to be cheaper in the US so you might be able to do it cheaper.

leeanderthal
05-04-2010, 10:59 PM
^ Hillbilly high-rise. I dig it!

cLAYH
05-04-2010, 11:57 PM
I call it the Redneck toy hauler......

Cody
05-05-2010, 01:51 AM
I have to disagree with this. I don't think you were being literal, but the message was there. That is one trip, you may have a great time, but now you need to save another $1500 to go again. So the math is actually backwards. If you put that $1500 into gadgets, you have gadgets and can over and over.

Nope, the math is spot on.

I'll tell my kids and my kid's kids about that trip, but I will never tell them about the trailer I built a tent for in my garage after work. Most people have gadgets at the expense of other things....like trips. So unless the gadgets are more memorable than the trip, then my math is spot on.

If you have enough money that you can spend $1500 on gadgets without it coming out of the trip budget, then it doesn't matter.

Besides, for too many people buy/build things like an expedition trailer or a RTT as a talking point for them. They like the attention of it and people asking questions so they can have the opportunity to tell that person about how much of an adventurer they think they are. "hey, cool trailer!" "ya, I built it for this and that and the other and I've taken it here and there". Nothing irritates me more...and yes the irony in that bothering me is not lost.

K2
05-05-2010, 06:51 AM
Nope, the math is spot on.

I'll tell my kids and my kid's kids about that trip, but I will never tell them about the trailer I built a tent for in my garage after work. Most people have gadgets at the expense of other things....like trips. So unless the gadgets are more memorable than the trip, then my math is spot on.

If you have enough money that you can spend $1500 on gadgets without it coming out of the trip budget, then it doesn't matter.

Besides, for too many people buy/build things like an expedition trailer or a RTT as a talking point for them. They like the attention of it and people asking questions so they can have the opportunity to tell that person about how much of an adventurer they think they are. "hey, cool trailer!" "ya, I built it for this and that and the other and I've taken it here and there". Nothing irritates me more...and yes the irony in that bothering me is not lost.

Sorry, in the sentence you quoted me on there was supposed to be the word go. I changed it. I dont have experience with this group, but to say "most" and "too many people", seems to be a very large generalization. Plus for this topic we are talking about Dave, so I am sure he will use it.

If you don't go on a trip once to build this trailer, then your next trips become cheaper because that is a one time expense. Yes some money will go to upkeep, but that is a smaller amount and further down the road (pun intended). So now he needs less money to go on a sweet trip he will tell his kids about and many others with the next $1500 he would need to go to who knows where and sit on the beach. Now at the sacrifice of the first trip, he can take more, more often.

Cody
05-05-2010, 01:16 PM
I guess I'm not following you very well. How does the trailer make it less expensive? I understand how you're trying to amortize the cost of the trailer across multiple trips, but we can neither assume that the trailer is required to go on trips and therefor a necessary cost, nor find any argument proving it in any way reduces the costs associated with going on a trip. It's neither a required fixed cost nor a vehicle (not the motorized kind) that reduces variable costs in your model. As was mentioned before, for those that have kids/dogs/wives it becomes much more of a required cost. For others it isn't, it's a luxury that won't necessarily get them out on the trail more frequently.

In reality it adds time and money to each additional trip. Gas mileage goes down, you have wear and tear on tires, shocks, springs, etc (you'd be surprised how quickly the tires wear down on those trailers), and in my world time isn't free, so you also have to account for the additional time to acquire/maintain/fix/pack etc the trailer. The extra time to pack the trailer is really not an issue since, as Dave mentioned, you can pack it and leave it ready to roll and that is certainly a convenience for people who can't leave their rig sitting in the driveway pre-packed like I can.

also, those tents won't last nearly as long as a nice ground tent. I've been using the same Mountain Hardware 4 season tent for 17 years. Kurt has gone through 4 RTT's in 5 years. Granted, only 2 were replaced due to wear and tear as the guy easily spends 50 nights per year in them, and the other two were replaced due to newer/nicer models coming out that, as a dealer, he can justify buying as a business expense.

K2
05-10-2010, 08:46 PM
Now that the site is up and I have more than one minute, I think I see the gap. I was arguing with your statement he should forgo the trailer and spend it on a trip to Mexico for a week drinking Coronas on the beach. I was stating that one trip to Mexico for $1500, is not the same value as a buying a trailer. I dont know to much about those RTTs, but I was looking more toward his question, which we have gotten so far away from (sorry Dave), that he wanted to use a trailer. I know these numbers are going to be off, but they are just for explanation, it would take me to much time researching prices to be accurate. Your example is one trip=$1500. I say one trailer=$1500. So you are ahead by one trip. Second trip, you $1500, me $500. I can now take 2 more trips than you because it is going to cost less per trip. I am also using the the assumption that a trailer, while not required, will make a trip feasible, and therefore he will now make these trips.

I hope this explains it. You make some very valid points, from which I can't truly compare apples to apples, as I dont have this exact experience. I did assume there will be upkeep and yes time is money, but if it costs you some more time, but you are actually doing what you want, well, I think I can justify more time into the cost.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention, I agree with the take you had on the numbers. No trailer means no extra costs and a direct savings of $1500 and no wear and tear and so on. But I will use Teds example, and what I know I need personally, with a wife, kid, 2 large dogs and camping for more than a couple days, one ZJ wont cut it.

Cody
05-11-2010, 12:13 PM
Ya, that makes sense, and like was said earlier when kids and significant others are in the mix, comfort features become necessities. If I find some dumb bag of guts crazy enough to shack up with me for the long haul, I'd probably spring for a flippac top for a 4 door taco. I just didn't like hauling the trailer around behind me when I had it....although it did fit my motorcycle nicely and made for a great yard trailer at times.

K2
05-11-2010, 12:49 PM
Yeah, I didn't add yard work in. I was assuming more of a custom camping/wheeling application, but a versatile version would be nice.

I have to wait on a trailer, I just bought another ZJ for towing my trailer queen. My 4.0 now has 44s front and rear with 10" of lift, I am building the exo-cage with a sweet stinger.

You should add RTTs to your list, lol.

Cody
05-11-2010, 01:22 PM
I like RTT's, they just aren't right for everyone. I wouldn't consider putting one on the roof of my ZJ, but i would consider putting one on the back of a taco or similar truck. But, again, it's not a priority for me right now so I don't see that in my near future.

K2
06-15-2010, 08:07 PM
I thought of these the other day, and saw one today. I grabbed the name from it for searching only.

http://www.bulldogatv.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=53&Itemid=63

I was think af the atv ones, but I think this utv one is better for your application. I didn't see a cost.

BigDaveZJ
06-15-2010, 08:51 PM
They're not cheap. Most are well over $1,000. By the time I do that I might as well get a bigger trailer.

K2
06-15-2010, 10:00 PM
I didn't look at prices. You may be able to build something similar yourself for way less. And depending on width you may just do the drive over the wheel well trick on one side. I know a trailready front bumper is 1g, but you can build one way cheaper. Just a thought.

BigDaveZJ
07-02-2010, 12:33 AM
Problem solved. Sold the 16' trailer, bought a 26' trailer.

Kauzi Zj
07-02-2010, 10:18 AM
Too bad, I was really enjoying this whole conversation, it gave me a chance to listen to multiple opinions, and ideas, so I can decide which way I might go...Thanks Dave, and Cody, and others, VERY valuable info in this thread!

R-TM-R 209
02-21-2011, 10:00 AM
I have a 04 Ram 3500 w/ a 9' flat bed, I ran into the same situation. My 99 WJ is not street legal here in oh. So I tow it with the Dodge as for my Campa Trailer I built a set of ramps and mounted a 12000lb warn winch to the back of my Ram and winch my trailer up.

cowboy63b
02-21-2011, 02:07 PM
thanks for digging up an old thread you turd! learn how to read the dates.