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View Full Version : getting claytons...need welder



death-mobile
03-26-2009, 12:44 PM
what is the smallest welder you could use to install claytons kit?

i know it says to use a 175A or better, which would obviously be 220V, but i was wondering if I could get away with anything smaller if I turned the heat up and slowed down the wire.

jsteves
03-26-2009, 12:46 PM
Cranking the heat will likely lead to burn through on the uni.

BigDaveZJ
03-26-2009, 12:50 PM
If it says to use at least a 175a, why would you even consider using anything smaller?

death-mobile
03-26-2009, 01:18 PM
yea, it was a dumb question.

how about this- what is the least expensive 175A welder I can find?

i would normally use my buddy's, but i moved far from him and all I have is a small hobart. i wouldn't feel good using it on anything like this install, but i was hoping I could find a 120V unit strong enough...i kinda knew it wouldnt be possible

Spr-T-23
03-26-2009, 01:26 PM
ive heard of using...like a chemical bond... on steel, fuses the metal together, stronger than the metal you are sticking it to. anyone else ever heard of thet?

BigDaveZJ
03-26-2009, 01:29 PM
You want him to use JB Weld to install Clayton's? WTF

Brad S
03-26-2009, 02:12 PM
ive heard of using...like a chemical bond... on steel, fuses the metal together, stronger than the metal you are sticking it to. anyone else ever heard of thet?


what?

death-mobile
03-26-2009, 04:08 PM
hmm...checking off list

wrenches
sockets
jack stands
25 tubes of jb weld :booya:

rccolacc
03-26-2009, 04:08 PM
yea, it was a dumb question.

how about this- what is the least expensive 175A welder I can find?

i would normally use my buddy's, but i moved far from him and all I have is a small hobart. i wouldn't feel good using it on anything like this install, but i was hoping I could find a 120V unit strong enough...i kinda knew it wouldnt be possible

If I were you I'd just take it to a someone to weld it up there. You'd save a bunch of money of having to buy a welder, plus you'd probably get a better quality weld in the end (assuming you get a professional to do it). Just my $.02.
Good luck.
-RC

death-mobile
03-26-2009, 04:17 PM
yea, understood, but i would say i'm definitely above average with my welding abilities and feel plenty confident to do the install myself. plus, it's just such a hassle to have someone else do the work, especially if they don't come and do it in my garage

as far as the kit itself, there isn't that much welding to be done, but i want to start messing around with fabricating and I finally have a place to do it, which is why i'm looking for an inexpensive welder (which is soo relative)...so, let me say a mig capable of 175A or better hopefully under 1K (including cart and gas valves, gun, wire)

BigDaveZJ
03-26-2009, 05:23 PM
I dont know how the pricing works out now, but I picked up my Miller 175 from cyberweld.com a couple years ago for like $749 I think. Don't forget a good hood, gloves, and welding jacket!

death-mobile
03-26-2009, 05:26 PM
around 700 seems to be the going rate for a decent mig

got gloves, got a helmet, and i like my shirts to have holes in them...chicks love it :smt028

haha...actually im looking into a jacket, slag hurts

slim616
03-26-2009, 05:32 PM
i got this one from home cheapo and it works real nice.
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/e4/e476a3c8-314d-4b2e-acaa-7febd17a652f_300.jpg

Derek33
03-26-2009, 05:35 PM
The Lincoln 175 from home depot ain't a bad choice. A little under 700, too.

death-mobile
03-26-2009, 05:38 PM
hmm, i have heard good things about that particular lincoln actually

i got a 10% off coupon for the depo as well...could possibly make a trip this weekend

Derek33
03-26-2009, 05:40 PM
hmm, i have heard good things about that particular lincoln actually

i got a 10% off coupon for the depo as well...could possibly make a trip this weekend

Cool. Just pick me up one while you're there.

death-mobile
03-26-2009, 05:41 PM
:rofl:

death-mobile
03-26-2009, 05:51 PM
is there much of a difference or does anyone favor either the miller or the lincoln? id suppose its just a matter of who bought what, unless there are some serious welders who have used both and prefer one over the other

zj95maxx
03-26-2009, 05:58 PM
Hobart 180s can be had for under 500 on ebay. Thats where I got mine. Cam has the same welder as I do. It is quality.:smt070

death-mobile
03-26-2009, 05:59 PM
sweet. machine gun fire must be it's bad-ass.

:smt068AND under 500....i'm diggin it

BigDaveZJ
03-26-2009, 06:08 PM
New version of what I've got: http://store.cyberweld.com/millermatic175.html Been very happy with mine, but the price has gone up a tad.

death-mobile
03-26-2009, 06:10 PM
uh oh...people are pushing their welders on me now

hobart
miller
lincoln
...so many choices

zj95maxx
03-26-2009, 06:24 PM
Hobart and Miller are made by the same people, millers are a bit nicer, adjustable voltage settings are a big perk. The miller matic 187 is the hobart 180 with adj voltage basically. It is also a bit more expensive.

Pretty much new hobart 180 for 500, free shipping
http://cgi.ebay.com/Hobart-500501-Welders-Handler-180-MIG-Welder-500501R_W0QQitemZ370177611918QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI _Welding_Supplies?hash=item370177611918&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Hobart-500501-Welders-Handler-180-MIG-Welder-500501R_W0QQitemZ370177611918QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI _Welding_Supplies?hash=item370177611918&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50)


The Hobart 187 is a bit more expensive because you get a better amount of adjustability( made that word up?) in the voltage but the voltage is still a set number. Example: 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 wheras the Miller has the ability to not be a click-by-click adjuster with the feature of being able to go to any voltage you want between the first number and the last number. That means you can turn it inbetween numbers, 75% the way to a number, anything.

The Hobart 180 only has voltages 1-4 but it will burn anything you have planned in perfectly. The clayton kit will be welded in on voltage 3, maybe voltage 2 if you are a slower welder when it comes to welding unibody so you dont burn through but if you can keep the bead more on the 1/4 then whip it to the unibody quickly and efficently, then voltage 3 would provide a stronger weld. The Hobart 180 is a GREAT welder. I love it.

A good helmet is a must as well. The Hobart Hoods are GREAT helmets that have adj. controls and auto darkening lenses. Don't feel the need to go for the upper 175$ dollar Hobart Hoods because all they do is have a cooler design and more adjusting on the shutter speed and other controls but the basic 100-150 dollar Helmet will do because with the Mig and whatnot, you won't be adjusting it that much.

Welding is not hard, the thing I see the most that makes me wonder why some people are welding is welding prep. SAND DOWN WHAT YOU ARE WELDING. Even if it means having to unbolt some stuff to be able to get the grinder in there, bare metal will weld 100% better than metal with a protective coat,paint,dirt, or anything else that is on there. Look at this for example of what I mean by sanding down.
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa45/zj95maxx/DSCN0844.jpg

I can go on and on about welding tips, opinions, and everything else but I will stop at this. Let me know if you have any questions.

death-mobile
03-26-2009, 06:38 PM
i agree with you about prep work. if i have any questions once i get going on the install, i will be sure to be on this forum.

i think im sold on the hobart 180...i'm a few clicks away from the purchase.

all i need is a link to the helmet and i might click that one too :smt040

zj95maxx
03-26-2009, 06:43 PM
This is the exact helmet I have. Comes with like 8 extra lenses too.
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200320563_200320563

death-mobile
03-26-2009, 06:48 PM
wow, even the link for the helmet...:partyman:

cheers bud! i just spent about $650.00

now i just have to get my tank recerted and filled with argon

oh yea, and wire an outlet for 240 in my garage. what size breaker do you have on the circuit for the welder?

zj95maxx
03-26-2009, 06:51 PM
I sure hope you don't get a tank full of Argon to weld with:rofl:

You bought all the stuff already? From my words of wisdom? SWEET! You won't be disappointed man. As for the breaker? No idea, paid someone to install it.

death-mobile
03-26-2009, 07:01 PM
yea, it looks like a good welder and the price is right

what wire do you use, and what do YOU use for shielding gas? methane?:poke:

zj95maxx
03-26-2009, 07:06 PM
Obviously you missed the joke....:D

Argon/Co2 Mix is what you were trying to say I am sure:smt061


as for wire. .035

death-mobile
03-26-2009, 07:10 PM
I may be a lil slow...so I need another tank? one for argon, one for co2? any links for a place just purchase such items?

i think im having a brain fart...but only using other peoples welders, it's always one tank...

BigDaveZJ
03-26-2009, 07:13 PM
Most welding supply places should be able to sell you a mixed tank.

zj95maxx
03-26-2009, 07:16 PM
Wow you were serious:axe:

death-mobile
03-26-2009, 07:16 PM
Thanks. I got a couple of tanks from a friend to use as a torch set, i'll just keep them as that and get a new tank from a supply co.

thanks for all the help guys, everything is ordered and i just need to know the breaker size to wire in and i'm good to go when it arrives

zj95maxx
03-26-2009, 07:16 PM
75% Argon / 25% CO2 is what you want. Anywhere that sells you gas should have this.:smt008

BTW, I dont know why I said .035 wire...I use .030

death-mobile
03-26-2009, 07:17 PM
Wow you were serious:axe:


75% Argon / 25% CO2 is what you want. Anywhere that sells you gas will have this.


only a little...or was i??? :smt104

Ted_Z
03-26-2009, 07:24 PM
I use 0.023 wire for sheet metal work (body repair or anything thinner that 3/16". I'd recommend 0.030 wire for the bracket to unibody welds. If you've have some use 0.035 wire for the brackets to axle tubes welds, but 0.030 will work ok.

A 50A breaker is what I use for my welder.

death-mobile
03-26-2009, 07:27 PM
thanks, 50A it is. and thanks for the wire size info. very helpful

sheeeeeet! I forgot to get a cart!

zj95maxx
03-26-2009, 07:31 PM
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_13938_13938
cart I have.
Not really for welding, but it holds everything you want sept the gas if you get a big tank(grinding discs, tools,helmet)
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa45/zj95maxx/tools014.jpg
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa45/zj95maxx/tools015.jpg

Weld on disc holders
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa45/zj95maxx/tools020.jpg

Kinda what it holds now, random shit.
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa45/zj95maxx/DSCN1455.jpg

Make sure you keep all the bolts tight. I didnt and the wheel came off. Still havent fixed it. I just lug the welder in and out of the shed everytime. But the cart is sweet.

death-mobile
03-26-2009, 07:42 PM
i have a matco roll-around cart with 2 drawers...perhaps i can customize it to fit the welder and tank...i dont use it much anymore. i used it when i worked in the shop, but im on the road now, so it's pretty much got household screwdrivers and romex in it.

slim616
03-26-2009, 10:08 PM
HF has one for $35 that is auto darkening with two year replacement no questions asked. ive used mine for almost two years and it has worked well. Check your local HD because i picked up my lincoln for alot cheaper then that.

death-mobile
03-27-2009, 05:58 AM
toooooo late!!!

the hobart 180 and hood that were linked on here before have been purchased.

death-mobile
03-27-2009, 07:03 AM
I use 0.023 wire for sheet metal work (body repair or anything thinner that 3/16". I'd recommend 0.030 wire for the bracket to unibody welds. If you've have some use 0.035 wire for the brackets to axle tubes welds, but 0.030 will work ok.

A 50A breaker is what I use for my welder.


Where do you buy your wire? Any particular brand you use? I've been looking around the web and getting confused by all the different types of steel/wire.

Also...what size tank do most of you use? I'm trying to judge how long one of those small tanks will actually last me.

paulkeith
03-27-2009, 07:30 AM
I like how you did a lot of research and made a personally educated decision.

I've seen Cam's hobart in action and was impressed with how much better it welded than my Lincoln SP-175T. Maybe its operator error?:D

Do yourself a favor and get a good cart. I tried to use to use a harbor freight unit and slap my plasma on the top self. It made it about 1 weekend before folding like a taco:

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j234/paulkeith/cars/buggy/feb2009/IMG_2970.jpg

I buy my wire by the 10lb roll at NWSCO. I bought harbor freight wire once. and will only buy harbor freight wire once.

death-mobile
03-27-2009, 07:35 AM
was thinking about this:
http://store.weldingdepot.com/cgi/weldingdepot/scan/fi=products/st=db/sp=results/co=1/sf=category/se=Mig%20Carts/op=eq/nu=0/bs=1/ml=9/tf=description/to=x/se=1/sf=inactive/op=ne/sf=tax_category/se=1/op=eq/va=banner_text=/va=banner_image=.html


still looking around though. I think i'm going to go with an 80CU cylinder btw.

Ted_Z
03-27-2009, 12:56 PM
Where do you buy your wire? Any particular brand you use? I've been looking around the web and getting confused by all the different types of steel/wire.

Also...what size tank do most of you use? I'm trying to judge how long one of those small tanks will actually last me.

I use an 80 cf tank, it last plenty long, I haven't filled it in 6 months.

I've bought wire at Harbor Freight and at the local welder supply house and even at the gas supply places. All seem to work about the same.

Derek33
03-27-2009, 01:14 PM
Max, how long does that tank normally last you? I'm looking into tanks but don't want to be getting it refilled every other day.

zj95maxx
03-27-2009, 01:17 PM
I have the bigger tank now. It lasts a good amount. few months

BigDaveZJ
03-27-2009, 01:20 PM
I've got a 40, and will be upgrading to an 80 or 92 the next time I get a refill.

OverkillZJ
03-27-2009, 04:33 PM
120 FTW! I got sick of running out of gas in the middle of projects... My friends shop is a mile down the road, we make sure one of the tanks is always full in case either of us run out mid-project.

Derek33
03-27-2009, 04:49 PM
I'm just curious because I saw an ad for a new welder that advertises portability. (not the ready welder)

It appears to use paintball C02 tanks. I have like 4 or 5 20oz paintball tanks in my basement.

What kind of life can i expect out of a small 20oz tank? Are the regulators you get with an average welder have the same threads as paintball co2 tanks?

zj95maxx
03-27-2009, 06:15 PM
No. Paintball regulators will not work with a welding tank..... Welding ones have a gauge for amount of gas in tank, and the amount of gas coming into your welder.

death-mobile
03-27-2009, 07:25 PM
someone was throwing out an old 80CU tank. grabbed it for free and spent 30 bucks to get it recertified and another 60 to fill it.

Where do you guys source your metal from when you do a big project? For things like sheet metal and up to 1/4 stuff

slim616
03-27-2009, 10:01 PM
scrap steel i have laying around and local steel shops.

death-mobile
03-29-2009, 11:37 AM
http://www.amazon.com/Hobart-770187-Universal-Portable-Welders/dp/B0002PS7TO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1238340355&sr=1-3

...cart I ordered. 130 with free shipping.

I'm going to get the tank filled this week and then all I need is to get some wire, some grinding/cut-off wheels and I think I'm good to go.

ZJ TINS
03-29-2009, 01:45 PM
or get the el cheapo helmet (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200311850_200311850)that works!

I am finding the leather apron suggestion really a great idea. Already seen several splashes dribbles that would have tagged me had it not been for the apron.
getting a cotton jacket with high neck next, and use welders gloves not the handyman. cheap insurance for your arms.

death-mobile
03-29-2009, 01:49 PM
Mr. Maxx convinced me on http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200320563_200320563 for a helmet.

I have a nice pair a gloves from matco, and I'm not concerned about a jacket just yet. I'll wait until It hurts too much, then splurge on a jacket :D

spykosshow
07-06-2009, 02:13 PM
Ok, bringing this back from the dead for a quick question.

Lincoln pro mig 180amp for 600

or

Hobart 187 for 660 new

(I work at blowe's and therefore get a discount on the lincoln.)

Oh and I will have to make an extension cord because we rent this house. The drier runs on 240, but I am unsure of the amperage. Can I just pull out the breaker to see?

zj95maxx
07-06-2009, 02:17 PM
Hobart 187

But, do you have proper hookup for the 230v welder?

I have personally used a 187( I have a 180) and the 187 is a serious welding machine, you can't go wrong getting it.

spykosshow
07-06-2009, 02:33 PM
Hobart 187

But, do you have proper hookup for the 230v welder?

I have personally used a 187( I have a 180) and the 187 is a serious welding machine, you can't go wrong getting it.


I've got the clothes drier that runs 240. I thought I was reading people create an extension cord from 10/2 and use their drier outlet.

spykosshow
07-06-2009, 02:36 PM
http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs165.snc1/6200_1154288102904_1398720068_30743386_4024457_n.j pg

death-mobile
07-07-2009, 08:52 AM
I ended up getting a 60cu tank new from a welding supply store. The tank I had would have been like 300cu of welding gas since cubic footage is relative to the type of gas that goes in the tank.

minydigger
07-07-2009, 10:34 PM
Ha I run my 187 off a dryer outlet.

spykosshow
07-07-2009, 11:47 PM
Ha I run my 187 off a dryer outlet.

And it works? I'm contemplating getting an electrician buddy from work to help me put in an outlet in the garage or just making an extension cord to the garage.

rccolacc
07-08-2009, 01:41 AM
I've done that before too, but depending on what the welder's set at, I've tripped the 30amp breaker using the welder. You could just upgrade the dryer outlet breaker though to fix that. I think most 220v welders need a 50amp. I know my PowerMIG 255 does.

death-mobile
07-08-2009, 07:44 AM
wooooah, be careful with that.

Hobart has it in bold print...NEVER USE MORE THAN A 30A BREAKER
That's on a 240V machine. Check out weldingweb for advice on wiring it. It's really super simple, just wire it correct and for the machine. Don't go bigger for the hell of it. Get a double pole 30A breaker...some 10/3 romex and a 30A 240 receptacle. black and red to the breaker, and the ground to the ground strip in the box. I think code is to have the red wire on top and the black wire below, but don't quote me on that.

rccolacc
07-08-2009, 11:13 AM
wooooah, be careful with that.

Hobart has it in bold print...NEVER USE MORE THAN A 30A BREAKER
That's on a 240V machine. Check out weldingweb for advice on wiring it. It's really super simple, just wire it correct and for the machine. Don't go bigger for the hell of it. Get a double pole 30A breaker...some 10/3 romex and a 30A 240 receptacle. black and red to the breaker, and the ground to the ground strip in the box. I think code is to have the red wire on top and the black wire below, but don't quote me on that.

My bad then. I assumed since mine used a 50 that most did.