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View Full Version : diesel on its way to becoming a RENEWABLE energy source????



BigDaveZJ
04-08-2008, 10:02 AM
http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news4.3.08d.html

CurtP
04-08-2008, 11:32 AM
I wonder what the density would have to be of the 1 hectare they say could sustain an average-sized family farm. That's right around 2.5 acres (if memory serves) which isn't much (about 4x the size of the garden we used to have growing up as a kid).

It's a type of Evergreen tree, but it sounds like it needs to be in a tropical or sub-tropical environment and is kind of picky about its soil.

ArloGuthroJeep
04-08-2008, 11:45 AM
No doubt that would be pretty slick to be able to grow your own fuel! Last week co4x4 had a link to macrobacterical oil - bacteria that produced oil. Also pretty cool.

SirFuego
04-08-2008, 12:03 PM
So apparently it takes 15-20 years for the trees to grow to a point where you can actually "harvest" the diesel. Leads me to three points:

1) If this tree is genetically engineered, wouldn't that mean that this would have been around for a lot longer and why haven't we heard about this before?

2) I personally don't think this is going to be a problem, but assuming that the infrastructure were built today for these trees to aid in the "oil crisis", would 15-20 be too long to wait?

3) If diesel can be "grown" by trees, what else can it be "grown" by? Bacteria like the previous post mentioned seems to be a much more viable option since bacteria reproduces so quickly. Arlo -- do you have a link to that thread/article?

BigDaveZJ
04-08-2008, 12:15 PM
From what I understand, these trees are already pretty common in the rainforests of Brazil. And from what I've read, some farmers have actually cut these trees down to grow corn for ethanol, which has an annual yield of only 30 gallons/acre.

ArloGuthroJeep
04-08-2008, 12:18 PM
http://www.popsci.com/oilbug
http://colorado4x4.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=119869&highlight=Oil

Nonstop
04-08-2008, 12:30 PM
That the oleoresin called copaiba could be obtained by incising the trunk was first reported in England in 1625, in a work published by Purchas, "...a single tree is said to yield about 40 litres." (Grieve, 1931, reprinted 1974). Quoting nobel-laureate Calvin, Maugh says (1979), "Natives ... drill a 5 centimeter hole into the 1-meter thick trunk and put a bung into it. Every 6 months or so, they remove the bung and collect 15 to 20 liters of the hydrocarbon. Since there are few Rabbit diesels in the jungle, the natives use the hydrocarbon as an emollient and for other nonenergy-related purposes. But tests have shown, he says, that the liquid can be placed directly in the fuel tank of a diesel-powered car." (Maugh, 1976). The copal is used in lacquers, massage preparations, medicines, and paints. Wood and resin can be used for fuel. The wood is used in carpentry (Burkart, 1943).

Are you surprised we haven't heard of it or that it has not been persued? Although there is tons of land to plant on, harvesting and refining in such a simple way might take some figuring to refine our methods back to a simpler way of retrieving the goods. It would be cool to find out how much the trees cost per. Here in FL we can get our hands on out of the way land pretty cheap, 28 acres less than 75 miles away just went for like $20k, buld a cabin make some trails and plant some fuel trees, tap em while yer out there...And that land is only like 10 miles from lake Okachobee... Go fishin while yer out there..

BigDaveZJ
04-08-2008, 12:46 PM
Here in FL we can get our hands on out of the way land pretty cheap, 28 acres less than 75 miles away just went for like $20k, buld a cabin make some trails and plant some fuel trees, tap em while yer out there...And that land is only like 10 miles from lake Okachobee... Go fishin while yer out there..

That could be pretty kickass, especially if your wheelin rig was diesel. Get low on fuel, just hook up to a tree and fill 'er back up.

Sporer65
04-08-2008, 01:06 PM
With the fuel needing to be used within 3 months, this really only makes sense for farmers and their equipment.

BigDaveZJ
04-08-2008, 01:09 PM
With the fuel needing to be used within 3 months, this really only makes a sense for farmers and their tractors.

I'm pretty sure with a little research and experimenting some additives could be created that would extend that 3 months. 100% Bio has a shelf life of 6 months IIRC and that's not an issue at all.

Sporer65
04-08-2008, 01:18 PM
I'm pretty sure with a little research and experimenting some additives could be created that would extend that 3 months. 100% Bio has a shelf life of 6 months IIRC and that's not an issue at all.

True. I was just talking about right now. But if it takes 15-20 years before they are reading to harvest, then there will probaly be a additive out by then.

SirFuego
04-08-2008, 01:30 PM
With the fuel needing to be used within 3 months, this really only makes sense for farmers and their equipment.

How so? With this being a fluid and not needing to refine the oil, I'd imagine one could get the turnaround time from tree to customer be pretty small. How often are fuel stations refilling their pumps? Even if the turn around time is 1 month to get it from tree to fuel station, that still gives the the station two months to go through the supply (I'd imagine they refill much faster than every couple months anyways...)

Just imagine acres upon acres of these trees. Run a bunch of pipes through these acres that run into a central location where you can then fill barrels and ship them out. Once that is set up, you can simply tap into the tree and run that tap to one of the pipes -- where the diesel automatically goes to the central location.

Plus since (it seems) you just need a tropical climate and land, you can pretty much disperse these throughout the world so the transport time of the diesel is much lower (and less costly).

Z
04-08-2008, 01:50 PM
I like this solution better: http://www.greenfuelonline.com. Use fast-growing algae to grow biofuels in the desert. They are also using industrial waste (C02) to feed the algae - so you get free feed, a reduction of C02 emissions and the end product is cleaner burning biofuel.

Summary from http://www.greenfuelsforecast.com/ArticleDetails.php?articleID=392 :


ALGAE FARMING

Some contenders in cellulosic field are thinking right out of the field. Rather than battling with woody plants full of lignin, they are looking at algae as a feedstock. The DOE’s facility, the National Renewable Energy Lab (NREL) in Golden, CO is one, but the leader of the algae pack is GreenFuel Technologies of Cambridge, Mass.


GreenFuel has been working with the Arizona Public Service, the state’s largest utility, and runs an unlikely top-secret algae farm in the middle of the desert.


Algae are the fastest-growing plants in the world, and they will grow in challenging environments, thriving on poor-quality water. They are also extremely energy-efficient, and can be harvested every day.


According to GreenFuel, each acre of algae could theoretically produce 5,000 gallons of ethanol per year compared with 300 gallons for soy beans and 300 gallons for corn. The company’s super-green algae farms can also mop up carbon dioxide from industrial flue gases while producing its biofuels.

Nonstop
04-08-2008, 01:54 PM
How so? With this being a fluid and not needing to refine the oil, I'd imagine one could get the turnaround time from tree to customer be pretty small. How often are fuel stations refilling their pumps? Even if the turn around time is 1 month to get it from tree to fuel station, that still gives the the station two months to go through the supply (I'd imagine they refill much faster than every couple months anyways...)

Just imagine acres upon acres of these trees. Run a bunch of pipes through these acres that run into a central location where you can then fill barrels and ship them out. Once that is set up, you can simply tap into the tree and run that tap to one of the pipes -- where the diesel automatically goes to the central location.


If only, unless it where an enviro coalition or some earthbound agency overseeing it the oil companies would find some way to distort it and some excuse to "refine" it with major dollars attached.

Hell the money involved I would doubt that even if some eco group was the overseeing agency, with dollar amount involved here they would be corrupted in no time, and then the shit would be subject to the same increases as anything else, thus rendering it as costly as anything else...

The funny fact would be that the general consumer, not people like on here, would have no clue, but would hear that it is "green" so they would stuff the crap in ther newly dieseled version of everything out there, then you would see H2's and 3's running diesel just so they can become uterly useless all over again, but green..
The good side here is that if some of us jumped on the train and bought some land/trees, we could be less dependant, and if done right, totally independant, like have a diesel station of our own. Until that is regulated to death.

Rant almost over.I have been layed up off my feet for a couple days now so I may be going cray.
I have a friend that owns a trans shop, he pumps his trany fluis, and whatever else is in there, through as filter, water seperator, then splits it 50/50 with fresh diesel, saves him on waste pick up. An he has thrown other things in there but this mix seems to be doing well. He runs a 4BT/4500/205 in a YJ