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Z
03-23-2008, 02:10 PM
After about 5 months of thought and planning, I've finally begun the build of my 2008 WK. This is and will remain a daily driver, but I want it to be as capable as a 4" lifted, 33 or 34" tired WK can be. I doubt this WK will ever make it over French's Creek on Holy Cross or Pritchett Canyon, but it'll easily handle Golden Spike.

The first two problems to be tackled: Fit a 33" spare tire in the stock location (under the cargo deck) and create "stealth" rear bumper protection, mainly from dropping off ledges - especially at the corners.

Yesterday I took the WK to Trango's house (I'm not a welder, he is and he also has good fabbing sense, so it was pretty cool to bounce ideas off each other).

The WK has a 2" x 2" rear crossmember - if you have a tow package, a hitch receiver is bolted to this crossmember - the location of this crossmember is the limiting factor when attempting to fit a 33" spare. The crossmember needed to be relocated rearward by about 2", so that's what we did...

Here's a shot of the stock setup with hitch. Disregard the tape on the left - that was where I was going to place 1" tubing for protection, but I've discarded that idea...
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKRearBuild/WKStockRearThree.jpg

After taking off the rear fascia, we removed the hitch receiver, here's a shot of it in stock form:
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKRearBuild/WKStockHitchReceiver.JPG

The integrated nuts took up to much space, so they had to go. Also the tube would extend too far into the spare tire area so that had to be shortened. (The hitch reciever would be welded onto the new crossmember section.):
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKRearBuild/WKModifiedHitchReceiver.JPG

Next we cut the lower portion of the stock crossmember. We left part of the upper portion of the crossmember to maintain shape. Here's a shot with the 33" spare in place:
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKRearBuild/WKCutRearCrossmemberTwo.JPG

Next, the 3/8" plate extensions:
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKRearBuild/WKCrossmemberExtensions.JPG

Here's a pic of Bob (Trango) test fitting the crossmember replacement:

http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKRearBuild/WKFittingCrossmemberReplacement.JPG

Here's the final (for now) version with the replacement crossmember section and hitch receiver:

http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKRearBuild/WKModifiedRearCrossmemberOne.JPG

(It does look a little better in person, but it's pretty obvious I'm going to have to fashion some form of face plate - even painted, that is just ugly.)


Next on the agenda was the "ledge protection". What I wanted was to have 1" round tubing around the entire edge of the fascia - I just had to figure out how to secure that tubing!

So, we positioned 2"x2" square tubing around the INSIDE of the bumper fascia. We started in the rear, where we could tie into the crossmember and rear crash protection supports, then created wings for the side sections, here are a few shots:

http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKRearBuild/WKRearSlidersStructureFive.JPG

http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKRearBuild/WKRearSlidersStructureThree.JPG

http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKRearBuild/WKRearSliderStructureOne.JPG

That's as far as we've gotten. Next on the "todo" list is to fab triangluated supports from the top of each crash protection ramp out to the far corners. That should give us plenty of support when landing on the far corner of the bumper. Right above each wing is a pinch weld, we're going to fab supports from the pinch welds down to the wings, which along with the triangulated support at the far corners, should provide plenty of strengh for the hits that the middle of the wings might take. We will probably also add some lateral protection - tying horizontally to the crash protection ramps.

The 2"x2" square tubing hangs at the same level as the fascia bottom and just inside the fascia. We plan to build sliders from 3/8" plate that bolts onto the 2"x2" tubing, the plate will extend outward. This plate will be the mounting surface for the 1" round tubing, which we'll bend to follow the contours of the fascia and weld into place.

The reason for bolt-on sliders is to allow me to remove and re-powdercoat after each wheeling season.

I realize that my departure angle has increased - the hitch receiver is now 2" farther back than stock. If this really becomes an issue, I'll probably just cut it off - I only really use it for a bike rack anyway.

Rubber Chuck
03-23-2008, 02:41 PM
This looks like it should be a cool build

PassRunnerZJ
03-23-2008, 02:41 PM
In looking at the angles, keeping the hitch receiver out there should save your spare from some grinding. It is amazing to see how much of the "looks like it should be empty space" has stuff in it. Have you concidered building a lighter weight slider for the spare or just going with a skinny spare? If you had a slider back there you could run your spare low or empty of air and just fill it when you need it and not take up as much space.

Taking the grinder to the new WK... As usual I'm sure the first cut was the hardest. Did Trango do it or did you get the honor?

Z
03-23-2008, 03:01 PM
In looking at the angles, keeping the hitch receiver out there should save your spare from some grinding. It is amazing to see how much of the "looks like it should be empty space" has stuff in it. Have you concidered building a lighter weight slider for the spare or just going with a skinny spare? If you had a slider back there you could run your spare low or empty of air and just fill it when you need it and not take up as much space.

Taking the grinder to the new WK... As usual I'm sure the first cut was the hardest. Did Trango do it or did you get the honor?

Regarding spare tire protection or sliderage, I'm still contemplating that. I tried to find a skinny spare, but they simply don't exist for 17" tires. My wife occasionally drives the WK, so I want the spare to hold air in case she ever has to deal with a flat. I'll probably tackle the need for a slider after everything else is said and done.

Regarding cutting - the only thing that literally took me 15 minutes to have the guts to do is trimming the fascia. The underside of the fascia angles in about 1-2". If I kept that portion of the fascia, the slider plate would need to be a lot wider than I wanted it, so I cut off the lower portion so the amount of space between the 2"x2" square tubing and the 1" round tubing would be as small as possible, for strength:

http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKRearBuild/WKRearFasciaCutting.JPG

I also had to cut the center section of the fascia to make room for the extend cross member, that hurt a lot too.

fpkites
03-23-2008, 03:04 PM
Looks very good Tom - I'm looking forward to reading your progress and seeing it in May.

InIt4TheFun
03-23-2008, 03:25 PM
Nice Tom!!!

Never been north of "Wheelin Trips" on mallcrawlin cause never been anything for a wk ;) .

Keep it up and can't wait for what you come up with next. :best:

1tongrand
03-24-2008, 09:48 PM
Show us whats on that trailer.

Z
03-24-2008, 09:51 PM
Show us whats on that trailer.


Hey, this is MY thread, not Trango's! :)

I don't know what all he has on that beast. What I really like is his tow vehicle - a surplus 6x6.

OverkillZJ
03-24-2008, 10:06 PM
Awesome Tom! I'm glad to see someone cutting into a WK a bit. With the planning you did, I'm sure it will come out tasteful and functional; it's good to see Trango building something on a Grand again!

SuicideTireZJ
03-24-2008, 10:43 PM
Show us whats on that trailer.

Pretty much just some outrageous buggy on 53's. Can't find any pictures of it, but it's huge.

CurtP
03-25-2008, 08:33 AM
Neat. I figured since you were moving the mounting point for the hitch aft that you wouldn't have to cut off the weld nuts and it would mount normally.

I've thought about doing a build, but after reading about all the issues others are having when going with anything above 31" tires, I opted to stop there. Is that 33" tire the one you're going to be using? Looks like a Goodyear Wrangler Silent Armor.

Who makes those lift forks for the front shocks? I know people were bending them and the new ones look scary too. No fucking way I'd run them!

My final setup is AEV Pintlers, 31" tires, Bilstein shocks and Commander front springs.

Z
03-25-2008, 11:01 AM
Neat. I figured since you were moving the mounting point for the hitch aft that you wouldn't have to cut off the weld nuts and it would mount normally.

I've thought about doing a build, but after reading about all the issues others are having when going with anything above 31" tires, I opted to stop there. Is that 33" tire the one you're going to be using? Looks like a Goodyear Wrangler Silent Armor.

Who makes those lift forks for the front shocks? I know people were bending them and the new ones look scary too. No fucking way I'd run them!

My final setup is AEV Pintlers, 31" tires, Bilstein shocks and Commander front springs.

Hindsight being 20/20, I actually wish we had extended the crossmember about 1/2 an inch less - that section is pushing the bumper fascia out just a smidge. But, I wanted to make sure the spare didn't touch the trackbar, so we gave it a little more room. I'll need to fab a face plate for the modified center section - I think it'll look okay. If we had kept the hitch receiver mounting nuts, the extension would have been even longer. Plus, the section we cut out was pretty much trashed, so we couldn't reuse it anyway.

It is a Silent Armor that I'll be using. I'm thinking of running those my first year - if they don't hold up, I'll switch to MTRs. I'll be running them as winter tires, so if they work for both, great, if not, I'll use 2 sets.

The problems people have had with lifts seem to be with the lesser brands. I have not heard many bad things about the 4" Superlift, so that's what I have on order.

CurtP
03-25-2008, 11:30 AM
You can always cut it out and re-weld it! :D

What's hitting on the facia? You could try removing the black trim bezel and see if it clears, then just trim the bezel as needed or forgo it entirely. If you have to trim the facia, I guess the trim bezel will be a moot point anyway.

The Silent Armor tires I have on mine are holding up very well, but about the most off-roading I do is dirt roads and corn/soybean fields. I was more under the impression that the biggest problem with running a tire bigger than 31" is that it fucks up the computer. I'm not sure exactly how, but I guess the ABS and traction control freak out. I know there's a box that is supposed to resolve the problem, but have they finally got all the bugs worked out of it?

The front shock forks were Rock Krawlers: http://s220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/GoGadgetWK/New%20Jeep%20Forks
I don't know about you, but those scare the shit out of me. Superlift uses replacement knuckles, correct? How much rake in the stance does the Superlift leave?

Z
03-25-2008, 11:48 AM
You can always cut it out and re-weld it! :D

What's hitting on the facia? You could try removing the black trim bezel and see if it clears, then just trim the bezel as needed or forgo it entirely. If you have to trim the facia, I guess the trim bezel will be a moot point anyway.

The Silent Armor tires I have on mine are holding up very well, but about the most off-roading I do is dirt roads and corn/soybean fields. I was more under the impression that the biggest problem with running a tire bigger than 31" is that it fucks up the computer. I'm not sure exactly how, but I guess the ABS and traction control freak out. I know there's a box that is supposed to resolve the problem, but have they finally got all the bugs worked out of it?

The front shock forks were Rock Krawlers: http://s220.photobucket.com/albums/dd161/GoGadgetWK/New%20Jeep%20Forks
I don't know about you, but those scare the shit out of me. Superlift uses replacement knuckles, correct? How much rake in the stance does the Superlift leave?

The trim bezel has to go - no room for it and I had to cut the hitch receiver window in the fascia (where the bezel would go) taller and wider, hence the need for me to fab a trim plate.

4" Superlift changes steering geometry, which messes with the ESP program. The AEV module which has been release, fixes 95% of the problem, but is only available for the 4" Superlift. I can't remember what all the Superlift changes. I personally won't have a problem with rake. In April (I hope) Armorology will be creating a winch bumper for me - this will require stiffer springs to handle the extra wieght. I bought 2 sets of springs from King Springs in Australia, one set is ~15% stiffer, one set is 25% stiffer, both sets are 1.3" taller. If I need to I'll cut the springs 'till I reach the correct height. (I used to live in Australia, still have a bank account there, so the springs were basically purchased with found money).

CurtP
03-25-2008, 01:07 PM
Just keep in mind that the more coils you cut off, the higher the spring rate will become. But at only 1.3" taller and the extra weight of a winch and bumper, you probably won't have to trim much, if any, at all.

Please keep us posted on your build - it's good to see someone doing a WK. I'm supposed to be going to Uwharrie next month with a group of friends and I'm actually thinking about taking the WK instead of the ZJ.

SirFuego
03-25-2008, 01:25 PM
How much longer until we see a DubKuggy? :D

Seriously, though. Nice to see someone build a WK. I'll be watching this thread.

nierace
03-25-2008, 02:12 PM
Always interesting to see the WK builds as there are so few of them...looks good so far :thumbsup:

jsteves
04-01-2008, 09:36 PM
Anything new? I will be really curious to see how this all turns out.

Z
04-01-2008, 10:45 PM
Anything new? I will be really curious to see how this all turns out.

Yes, if you want to come to San Francisco, you can see the pics I took with my IPhone. :) I took them just before I went to the airport. (I haven't bothered setting up remote access to my home PCs, so I'll have to wait until I get back to host the pics.)

Man is tube bending a very time-consuming task.

We got the tubing bent for a replacement for the hitch receiver bezel - I now need to cut some plate to fit inside the bezel and weld it on. When I'm done, it will actually act as a parking guard - people will (most likely) hit the guard before they hit the fascia.

We (meaning Bob, of course:)) also got the 3/8" plate tacked up to the inno-skeleton, bent the 1" tubing and tacked it onto the plate. We're both pretty happy with the way it looks - pretty subtle, especially when it gets painted.

I don't think the 1" tubing is going to give enough protection to the fascia corners, so I think I'm going to augment the corners with some 1/4" plate - so the plate will stick out 1-2" futher than the 1" tubing (just in the corners).

Also, I've designed (out of cardboard) a skid/slider for the spare tire - I need to get some 1/4" plate, score it up, bend it and head back to Bob's for a final day of fabbing.

jsteves
04-02-2008, 10:58 AM
Sounds like it is moving along.

Jeeperoni91
04-03-2008, 08:55 PM
a built WK? whhhhhhhat?

can't wait to see the build. keep up the good work

InIt4TheFun
04-03-2008, 09:52 PM
Wk is the step child of the grands, but we like to wheel 2:best: .

Matt
04-04-2008, 01:11 AM
WK are impressive for IFS.

Nice build Tom, keep it up.

InIt4TheFun
04-05-2008, 11:18 AM
Can't wait to see what Tom comes up with for the front bumper!!
:booya:

Z
04-13-2008, 08:38 AM
Got a bit more done yesterday. Finished drilling and tapping all the holes to secure the edge protection to the inno-skeleton, here's a few shots of the edge protection. (The edge protection fits closer to the fascia when all bolts are installed.)

http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKRearBuild/WKRearEdgeProtection1.jpg

http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKRearBuild/WKRearEdgeProtection2.jpg

http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKRearBuild/WKRearEdgeProtection3.jpg

Here's a pic of the spare tire protector/slider (in progress). 3/16" plate scored and bent to shape:

http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKRearBuild/WKRearSlider.jpg

ZigsRig
05-20-2008, 05:23 PM
Any more Progress?

Z
05-20-2008, 08:00 PM
Any more Progress?

Yeah. She's almost done. Lift and all armor is on, I just have a few cosmetic things to add and install the CB.

I'll take some shots this weekend. Also getting an oil change on Thursday - if they put it on a lift I'll ask to take some structure shots - if that doesn't work I'll take some structure shots when I do the Wedge on Golden Spike.

Z
05-22-2008, 09:26 PM
Here's a shot of the rear fascia protection, slider to cover the spare tire and hitch bezel replacement...

http://www.travelerz.net/Public/WKRearBuild/WK%20Rear%20Guards.jpg

Jeeperoni91
05-22-2008, 09:46 PM
sick

BigDaveZJ
05-22-2008, 09:48 PM
Looks awesome Tom! Can't wait til ya scratch it! :flipoff2:

fpkites
05-22-2008, 10:03 PM
Tom, that's absolutely amazing - almost looks like it came from the factory that way. Very cool.

Z
05-22-2008, 10:10 PM
Looks awesome Tom! Can't wait til ya scratch it! :flipoff2:

Yeah, I was thinking it's looking too nice to take on the trail now!

Actually, the beauty of it is that it's all bolt on. Scratch it up during the trail season, unbolt it, take it to the powdercoaters, reinstall for the winter.

And I didn't plan it this way, but the powdercoat color is the same color as Hammerite black (powdercoat has metal flake in, though). The trailer hitch is Hammerite black, the rest is powdercoat. So, if I want to touch-up, I can use Hammerite and it won't be too noticeable.

Z
05-22-2008, 10:14 PM
Tom, that's absolutely amazing - almost looks like it came from the factory that way. Very cool.

Thanks Jim. That was the plan. Though if I REALLY wanted it to look like it came from the factory that way, I'd have had it chromed instead of powdercoated (stupid least common denominator Jeep fashion designers).

PassRunnerZJ
05-22-2008, 10:37 PM
Slick! Now copyright it before someone else copies the idea and markets it. Oh yea, copyright it in chrome too...

You know if you find you need some more protection higher in the corners (say, Golden Crack), you can bring the upper tubing out a bit and incorporate some kind of step to reach things on the top. But then you still have the factory step bumper too.

Z
05-22-2008, 10:45 PM
Slick! Now copyright it before someone else copies the idea and markets it. Oh yea, copyright it in chrome too...

You know if you find you need some more protection higher in the corners (say, Golden Crack), you can bring the upper tubing out a bit and incorporate some kind of step to reach things on the top. But then you still have the factory step bumper too.


Yeah, I created some additional corner protection, but didn't do a good job cutting and drilling, so they aren't symmetrical and probably not quite big enough. If I can find some more plate at the scrap yard, it won't take me to long to fab up some replacements.

ZigsRig
05-22-2008, 10:54 PM
Very nice. I cant wait to see the whole package! :smt038

ArloGuthroJeep
05-23-2008, 10:36 AM
Looks amazing, nice job!

JohnBoulderCO
05-23-2008, 11:24 AM
Very nice! You need to christen it, by tagging it, crossing the Crack.

Mtn WJ
05-23-2008, 08:09 PM
Looking good Tom. I saw your WK at HCP4X4 last week Friday. Nice work.

Z
05-25-2008, 12:28 AM
Took some photos today...

Overall:
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKRearBuild/WKFrontLeft.jpg

This shot shows the reinforcement (round) tubing going from the frame (actually crash protection ramps) to the 2"x2" square tube skeleton:
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKRearBuild/WKRear.jpg

This shot is a little tough to understand so I color coded it. The black canister is the charcoal canister which is on the rear of the WK. The blue is the pinch weld - this pinch weld is pretty stout - 2-3 times thicker than on the ZJ. We put strapping on each side of the pinch weld, bolted in 6 places, then tied the strap to the 2"x2" skeleton via the 2" channel circled in yellow. Lateral support comes from 2" round tubing, circled in green, that goes from the crash protection ramps (that are bolted to the subframe) to the 2" x 2" square tubing. The location of the lateral support also protects the charcoal canister, though I don't really think the canister is in any danger for any trails I'll do (for now :))


http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKRearBuild/WKBumperStructure.jpg

And finally, the "Yeah, I can highlift from it" picture:
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKRearBuild/WKHighLift.jpg

Jeeperoni91
05-25-2008, 12:32 AM
great work

Z
05-25-2008, 12:37 AM
Oh yeah, forgot to mention one of the nice things about the WK - the rocker panels are plastic. 4xGuard makes (really NICE) replacements for the plastic. So, "rocker panel cutter outtage" that is so onerous on the ZJ and WJ consists of just ripping off some plastic rivets on the WK.

BigDaveZJ
05-25-2008, 12:40 AM
Are those the tires you'll be running on the trail??

OverkillZJ
05-25-2008, 01:51 AM
Looks sick.

Z
05-25-2008, 07:43 AM
Are those the tires you'll be running on the trail??

For now, yes. 33" Wrangler Silent Armors. I tried to find a tire that has decent wear, good all-around street manners and still trailable. If they don't cut it I'll invest in some 34" MTRs, but everyone I've asked that has these say they do just fine on the trail.

BigDaveZJ
05-25-2008, 10:26 AM
For now, yes. 33" Wrangler Silent Armors. I tried to find a tire that has decent wear, good all-around street manners and still trailable. If they don't cut it I'll invest in some 34" MTRs, but everyone I've asked that has these say they do just fine on the trail.

They look like they'd work pretty well on the slick rock in Moab, curious to see how they'd do on CO trails though where things can be a little looser.

dangerousdave
05-25-2008, 10:36 AM
You need to get that thing out on the trail and get some pictures. It looks very nice. I really like the rear protection it turned out very nice.

Z
05-25-2008, 10:40 AM
They look like they'd work pretty well on the slick rock in Moab, curious to see how they'd do on CO trails though where things can be a little looser.

Remember that I'm stepping back a bit on trail level that I'll do. I sincerely doubt the WK can make it further than French Creek on Holy Cross. Assuming the Silent Armors have enough durability (they have Kevlar belts so hopefully they will be durable) I think they'll work fine. And again, if they don't work that well on the trail, I'm not really out anything - I'll just pick up some MTRs for the trail. The Silent Armors are quite nice around town so will work well for street/winter tires and they are rated for either 50K or 70K miles, so don't wear nearly as fast as MTRs.

Z
05-25-2008, 10:42 AM
You need to get that thing out on the trail and get some pictures. It looks very nice. I really like the rear protection it turned out very nice.

Hmmmm, maybe I should go to Grand Slam West on Friday? :)

dangerousdave
05-25-2008, 11:00 AM
Hmmmm, maybe I should go to Grand Slam West on Friday? :)

Nice, I didn't even realize that it was that close. I really wish I had the $ to make it out there to wheel.

PassRunnerZJ
05-25-2008, 10:45 PM
Looks really sharp, too bad Hi-Lift doesn't do a WK red. I'm looking forward to seeing it in person.

Matt
05-25-2008, 11:07 PM
Dang Tom, she's a bute.

Clean and capable! :smt023

ZigsRig
05-26-2008, 10:44 AM
Very Nice!

Z
10-22-2008, 11:06 PM
I went with a PowerTank (C02 tank) for my On Board Air, so I needed some way to secure it in the cargo area. I also wanted to gain a little extra height in the cargo area, so I removed the factory cargo floor insert:

http://www.travelerz.net/public/powertank/factorycover.jpg

I got a 1/2" x 4' x 4' piece of plywood for a new subfloor and also ordered color-matched, factory fit cargo area carpet to cover the subfloor (the factory fit carpet came in handy when tracing out the cuts necessary on the plywood):

http://www.travelerz.net/public/powertank/carpet.jpg

I ordered a mounting bracket from PowerTank, but still needed a mount for the bracket. I wanted to be able to easily remove the bracket when it wasn't wheeling season, so I created a base plate and L Bracket on which the PowerTank mounting bracket would be secured. I drilled and tapped mounting holes in the base plate and drilled corresponding holes in the L Bracket. The L Bracket is held onto the base plate via 4 wing nuts. The base plate is secured to the plywood subfloor via wood screws. The subfloor is secured to the cargo floor via bolts pushed through holes drilled in the cargo floor.

http://www.travelerz.net/public/powertank/pieces.jpg

The L bracket can be attached to the base plate in either a standing orientation or prone orientation (I can close the cargo cover with the PowerTank in the prone position):

http://www.travelerz.net/public/powertank/standingbracket.jpg

http://www.travelerz.net/public/powertank/pronebracket1.jpg

And here's the finished product:

http://www.travelerz.net/public/powertank/complete.jpg

ArloGuthroJeep
10-22-2008, 11:51 PM
Nice job Tom...Nice and clean:)

Z
11-16-2008, 12:56 PM
The first part of my front bumper build is now done. Well, almost - I have some cleanup and painting to do, but it's pretty much done.

To review: I want a winch bumper but wanted to make the front of the bumper as shallow as possible so as not to degrade the approach angle.

The basic idea for this portion of the build is to replace the existing front crossmember with a winch plate. Here are the highlights and lessons learned from the build.

Pic of the stock front, before mods.
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWinchMount/stock.jpg

Pic of the cut crossmember. Before we started cutting we tack welded some angle iron to keep the two sides together.
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWinchMount/cut crossmember.jpg

Next we welded 7" wide by 9" tall vertical plates - highlighted in green. You can't see in this picture, but the crossmember cuts were designed to cut off a corner of the inner tow hook mounts - the yellow highlight shows that the plate abuts and is welded to the tow hook mount. The tow hook mount spans from the extreme lower, outer portion of the subframe. We'll tie into the extreme upper, center portion of the subframe later so it seems like we're spreading the forces over a large portion of the subframe. The blue highlight shows that we're still keeping the two sides tacked together with angle iron.

http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWinchMount/vertical plates.jpg

Here we've welded on a Warn "Foot Down" Universal Winch Mount. We cut a few inches off each side of the mount to fit in this space. We also had to drill 2 new holes for the T Max winch. On the left side we've also welded on a wing to tie the vertical plate and horizontal winch plate into the top center of the subframe.

Front View:
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWinchMount/winch mount front.jpg

Top View:
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWinchMount/winch mount top.jpg

Here's a front view of the finished project. We cut the vertical plates down from 9" high to 7" high - and added some angle iron on the back. We should have kept the back of the vertical plates at 9" (or maybe 8") - more on this later.
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWinchMount/final front.jpg

Here's a top view of the finished project. The tabs highlighted in green are for clips that secure the bottom of the grill. The tab highlighted in yellow is for the air temperature sensor. The top of grill supports, highlighted in red, had to be reformed a bit, you can see some hammer marks from beating them into submission.
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWinchMount/final top.jpg

Here's a top shot with winch attached and the cut cross member for comparison:
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWinchMount/final with crossmember.jpg

Here's a front shot with the winch attached. Remember when I said we should have left the rear of the vertical plates at a height of 9" - when we tried to initially insert the winch we couldn't get it around the lower angle iron. So we had to cut a portion of the horizontal piece of the angle iron to give us a winch window. If we had left the rear of the vertical plates at 9", we probably wouldn't have had to cut the angle iron. We don't know if the angle iron is really necessary, but it seems like a good idea.
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWinchMount/with winch.jpg

The stock bumper fascia fits over this mount - I don't have a good shot yet with the bumper fascia on. Again, this is phase 1 of a 2 phase build. I will eventually create a new bumper skin from sheet metal and metal plate (probably not until spring 2009).

Derek33
11-16-2008, 01:55 PM
incredible! Everything is so clean.

BigDaveZJ
11-16-2008, 02:01 PM
Looking awesome Tom!!

Matt
11-16-2008, 03:00 PM
Very nice work Tom. :smt023

SuicideTireZJ
11-16-2008, 03:04 PM
Wow, that thing is gorgeous! Great fab work to you and Bob.

fpkites
11-16-2008, 03:47 PM
Wow - that should most definitely be applicable to ZJs (at least) - looking great Tom!

Foxmotorsport
11-16-2008, 06:11 PM
:smt038 looks awesome

nierace
11-16-2008, 07:19 PM
Thats some real nice work, can I drop my WJ off at your place ?!

Can't wait to see the end product for the bumper.

fpkites
11-16-2008, 07:44 PM
Get yer fuggin ass out here to the western states and you might have a chance Nicky :flipoff2:

ArloGuthroJeep
11-16-2008, 09:24 PM
Nice job Tom, this'll give me a good starting point for when I do mine. Any particular reason you mounted the winch upside down?

D-FRESH WJ
11-16-2008, 10:51 PM
thats what i was thinkin when i built mine .. i jus went with another idea.... its lookin good man keep it up!!!!!

dp96zj
11-16-2008, 11:27 PM
Wow that's sweet! Great idea and a great location to keep it tucked away.

The WK's look like they have about 4 more inches between the grill and radiator... sure wish the ZJ's came like that!

piku303
11-16-2008, 11:52 PM
you should really consider getting this patented and selling it. great design.

Z
11-17-2008, 11:56 AM
Thanks guys. Ryan - I wanted to make a mount that would be as difficult to install a winch in as possible. Installing even this relatively light weight winch is a bitch!

Seriously - the winch plate replaced the stock deck quite nicely. Also it puts the fairlead in the right spot. If I had created a right-side up mount the fairlead would be 7 inches lower, which I think is too low (or I would have had to cut the grill which would ruin the look I was going for). It just provides the right look. I wish someone would come up with remote wiring for winch solenoids. The remote pack would fit great behind the grill, on top of the winch plate, but there's no (clean) way to access the damned solenoid pack. Still thinking on solenoid placement.

Piku - this isn't an original idea. AEV created this solution for the Commander and WK. They have a really nice plate custom fabbed for this purpose. Unfortunately AEV doesn't sell the plate individually - you have to ship them your WK or Commander, pay them $8K or whatever and you get back a read-for-the-trail vehicle that also includes this mod. So, Bob T. and I created our own solution.

By the way, I've decided I really need the angle iron in the lower back - not for the winch mount but to tie the two tow hooks together in event of an off-center side pull.

JohnBoulderCO
11-19-2008, 07:48 PM
Very cool! Very clean, I like it.

MoonWorks
11-19-2008, 11:04 PM
Looks good...and looks like a lot of time went into all of your work. You don't see many WK's getting built so it's nice to see something that's not the "norm".

elmer_fud
11-20-2008, 01:45 PM
Thanks guys. Ryan - I wanted to make a mount that would be as difficult to install a winch in as possible. Installing even this relatively light weight winch is a bitch!

Seriously - the winch plate replaced the stock deck quite nicely. Also it puts the fairlead in the right spot. If I had created a right-side up mount the fairlead would be 7 inches lower, which I think is too low (or I would have had to cut the grill which would ruin the look I was going for). It just provides the right look. I wish someone would come up with remote wiring for winch solenoids. The remote pack would fit great behind the grill, on top of the winch plate, but there's no (clean) way to access the damned solenoid pack. Still thinking on solenoid placement.

Piku - this isn't an original idea. AEV created this solution for the Commander and WK. They have a really nice plate custom fabbed for this purpose. Unfortunately AEV doesn't sell the plate individually - you have to ship them your WK or Commander, pay them $8K or whatever and you get back a read-for-the-trail vehicle that also includes this mod. So, Bob T. and I created our own solution.

By the way, I've decided I really need the angle iron in the lower back - not for the winch mount but to tie the two tow hooks together in event of an off-center side pull.

for the wiring for the winch control, maybe you could you connect it, then splice some sort of connector into the remote wire and put it in a convenient place. Maybe you could use some sort of trailer wiring connector or something similar that would hold up well.

Otherwise, Nice looking jeep. You have made it functional while still looking good

Z
11-20-2008, 01:57 PM
for the wiring for the winch control, maybe you could you connect it, then splice some sort of connector into the remote wire and put it in a convenient place. Maybe you could use some sort of trailer wiring connector or something similar that would hold up well.

Otherwise, Nice looking jeep. You have made it functional while still looking good

Wow - what a great idea! It's just wiring - just change connectors. I really like that idea. Gotta think about that - thanks!

ATL ZJ
11-20-2008, 01:58 PM
incredible! Everything is so clean.

Except for the passenger side vertical weld. Looks porous at the top.

Z
11-20-2008, 02:42 PM
Except for the passenger side vertical weld. Looks porous at the top.

Yeah. You weren't supposed to notice that. We marked one cut line in the crossmember and then changed our minds and marked a second cut line without noting which line to cut. The wrong line was cut first (you can see it in the second picture), so Bob had to stitch that cut back together. There's also a (stock) hole in that vicinity that you may be seeing.

jsteves
11-20-2008, 03:24 PM
It looks great Tom! Could you mount the solenoid box under the hood somewhere and run an internal switch to the dash?

Mtn WJ
11-20-2008, 03:43 PM
Nice work indeed. Cant wait to see the pics of it finished. Should look like the AEV WK. My guess it may even be beefier knowing Bob had something to do with it.

Z
11-20-2008, 03:45 PM
It looks great Tom! Could you mount the solenoid box under the hood somewhere and run an internal switch to the dash?

I'm thinking of putting the solenoid box behind the grill - plenty of room and I have a handy shelf there! The problem is accessing the connector. If I replace the current harness with a trailer harness I could have a nice hinged-door receiver that I could stick anywhere - possibly on the winch cover. The cab isn't a bad idea but I'm trying to keep that as stock-looking as possible.

Z
11-29-2008, 01:01 AM
I worked on templates for the end caps. These will be made out of 3/16" steel plate and will attach to the center section via countersink bolts. The bolt heads will be covered by a sheet metal center section.

The templates will be laser cut. The dotted lines on the templates are bend lines and will be perforated by the laser so that we can actually bend with garage tools (will probably need to cut some more with grinder, but the perforations should ensure straight lines). I've seen a few mistakes on theses photos that weren't apparent when the templates were on the WK, so the templates will be fixed before being sent to laser cutter.

http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWinchMount/Template1.jpg

http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWinchMount/Template2.jpg

http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWinchMount/Template3.jpg

http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWinchMount/Template4.jpg

jsteves
11-29-2008, 10:45 AM
Nice! So are you not reusing the factory fascia?

Z
11-29-2008, 02:06 PM
Nice! So are you not reusing the factory fascia?

Nope - want/need something more trail worthy. It's just nice that the factory covers my work in progress.

mrgc
12-07-2008, 10:01 AM
Nice build only if you were in australia you can do something similar for my WJ, always wanted a neat way for some more protectection for the rear bar and an integrated winch at the front.

Rangerwj
12-18-2008, 06:02 PM
any progress. i love this build cause its so clean. i cant wait to see ur bumper, should be sweet.

Z
12-18-2008, 06:31 PM
any progress. i love this build cause its so clean. i cant wait to see ur bumper, should be sweet.

I now have possession of the end cap pieces - laser cut and etched 3/16" plate as well as some 12 ga. sheet metal for the center section.

I also scoured the u-pick-em yard for a washer reservoir to relocate it from behind the bumper to on the firewall. Found a good fit for my purposes from an Eagle Premier.

I now need to fab a mount for the washer and relocate the wiring and tubing.

Sometime in January I hope to finish the bumper. (I have to relocate the washer reservoir first 'cause we're going to tie a triangulated support from the subframe to the the corner of each endcap - the stock reservoir will be in the way of this support.)

Cody
12-18-2008, 07:41 PM
Very nice Tom! I really like the WK's.

CrawlerReady
12-18-2008, 08:23 PM
Tom that bumper is going to look great! Definitely the best WK I've seen by far

MoonyJohn
01-01-2009, 10:14 PM
Yeah, I hope that bumper turns out good. I like it alot! Great WK

Z
01-03-2009, 10:08 PM
Thanks for the encouragement, guys. Here's my next installment.

On my 4.7L '08 WK there is a nice spot on the passenger side of the firewall for a washer reservoir:

http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWasherReservoir/ReservoirLocation.jpg

After scouring a u-pick-it wrecking yard, I found a reservoir from an '92 (?) Eagle Premier that fit my needs nicely - right size and convenient mounting tabs. Here's a shot of the reservoir as well as the bracket pieces:

http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWasherReservoir/ReservoirBaseParts.jpg

The bracket assembled with pop rivets:

http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWasherReservoir/ReservoirBracket.jpg

Front shot of the bracket riveted to the reservoir
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWasherReservoir/ReservoirCompleteFront.jpg

Back shot of the bracket riveted to the reservoir
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWasherReservoir/ReservoirCompleteBack.jpg

The Eagle reservoir didn't come with a sensor, so after test fitting to the firewall, I found the best location for the sensor was on the back, so I drilled a 7/8" hole for the sensor. (The Eagle reservoir's pump hole works without modification for the WK's pump)
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWasherReservoir/ReservoirSensorHole.jpg

Here's the complete reservoir with sensor and pump attached. I'm hoping the stock pump works fine in a horizontal instead of vertical orientation:
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWasherReservoir/ReservoirComplete.jpg

The reservoir (bracket) is mounted to the "firewall" via bolts in holes drilled through to the wiper grill area - pull the weather seal off, pull the grill up to get access to that area. The bolts are pushed through from the back, secured on the front with nuts. The bracket is attached to the bolts and secured with wingnuts (sooner or later the reservoir will need to be removed for spark plug replacement).
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWasherReservoir/ReservoirMounts.jpg

Final shot of the reservoir installed. It's filled with water, I'll test for a couple weeks to make sure it holds up and doesn't leak, then I'll lengthen the wiring and hoses and hook up to the Eagle reservoir. (The reservoir leans a little bit right now - if I get really bored I'll try to add support on the bottom to level it.)
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWasherReservoir/ReservoirInstalled.jpg

Matt
01-03-2009, 10:27 PM
If you get to many ideas Tom, you may need to start a business.

Looks great.

Art
01-03-2009, 10:41 PM
i love watching this build! keep it up man!

CrawlerReady
01-04-2009, 12:18 AM
So....I may have missed this somewhere...but why did you put in the washer fluid reservoir? Just wanted a second one?

Kraqa
01-04-2009, 12:36 AM
So....I may have missed this somewhere...but why did you put in the washer fluid reservoir? Just wanted a second one?


ya, the bumpers look amazing!

but whats up with the washer res.

dp96zj
01-04-2009, 12:49 AM
Sometime in January I hope to finish the bumper. (I have to relocate the washer reservoir first 'cause we're going to tie a triangulated support from the subframe to the the corner of each endcap - the stock reservoir will be in the way of this support.)


There ya go dudes :smt023

Z
01-04-2009, 01:12 AM
There ya go dudes :smt023

That and with the new bumper the stock reservoir would be exposed and vulnerable.

CrawlerReady
01-04-2009, 02:14 AM
AH...well very cleanly done :D

Looking good Tom!

SirFuego
01-04-2009, 03:44 AM
Very nice, sir. Good night, sir.

ZigsRig
01-06-2009, 03:24 PM
Tom,

This is a great solution to the problem... Plus, it looks bigger than the stock one.

Nice Work!

Z
01-29-2009, 08:58 PM
Progress report. Got the end caps built and nearly ready for paint (they have a few rust spots - sandblast or just POR?)

Here's the structure we built - 2" thick wall square tubing:
http://www.travelerz.net/public/wkwinchmount/bumperstructure.jpg

End cap shots:
http://www.travelerz.net/public/wkwinchmount/bumperside.jpg

http://www.travelerz.net/public/wkwinchmount/bumperfront.jpg

http://www.travelerz.net/public/wkwinchmount/bumperthreequarter.jpg

http://www.travelerz.net/public/wkwinchmount/bumpercloseup.jpg

The end caps are held to the mounts via 6 grade 8 countersink bolts. There is also a mounting point on the back side that will triangulate to the subframe just aft of the radiator support.

I'll have a sheetmetal shop bend and cut a cover for the center section out of 12 gauge steel. An access port for the winch cable will be cut into the cover and be hidden (unless in use) behind a license plate holder. This cover will hide the counter sunk bolts.

D-FRESH WJ
01-29-2009, 09:11 PM
that is very nice .... i like alot

jsteves
01-29-2009, 09:13 PM
Tom, that looks great! I would just take a paint and rust removal wheel to the rust and then paint it.

fpkites
01-29-2009, 09:52 PM
Very nice Tom! Looking forward to seeing it in person.

KDUB
01-30-2009, 11:41 AM
Very well done. Looking forward to seeing it in it's complete form. X2 on the wire wheel clean up and some spray paint finish.

Z
01-30-2009, 12:15 PM
I'm not sure the wire wheel will get into the pitted areas, but I'll try. Prior to spraying with primer I did strip everything with a flapper disc - maybe I got it all with that. I washed the WK last night - I suppose that if any rust still exists it'll eat through the primer rather quickly and I can use the wire wheel.

Another question - to straighten up some lines I'd like to affix 12 gauge sheet to one plane of the end cap and then flapper-disc a smooth transition on 3 sides (I need to leave the 4 side straight). I can't weld it - would epoxy or JB weld be strong enough to attach 12 gauge to 3/16 plate and hold under the duress of the flapper wheel? (I'd fill any small gaps with body putty).

D-FRESH WJ
01-31-2009, 11:50 AM
i personaly think that the flap disc would just rip it off or tear it off .. youd have to get the epoxy spread pritty good . at the body shop we put door skins on with a heavy duty light wate epoxy.

ZigsRig
02-24-2009, 07:32 PM
Any more progress on this bumper Z?

Z
02-24-2009, 08:01 PM
Any more progress on this bumper Z?
Sheet metal guy is fabbing the center section - on Saturday I saw what he had done so far and it is an absolute thing of beauty. It's amazing what you can do with 30 years of experience and the right tools.

While at his shop he showed me one of his "real" projects - it was a safety gantry - roughly the size and configuration of a street lamp with extra reinforcement. This project cost $100K and it's sole purpose was to prevent a workman from falling (unrestrained) 6 feet. $100K to prevent someone from falling half a story. Seems to me like a hard hat with a chin strap would be a little cheaper.

I also figured out how to re-line my fender well - vinyl lawn edging.

Matt
02-24-2009, 08:29 PM
While at his shop he showed me one of his "real" projects - it was a safety gantry - roughly the size and configuration of a street lamp with extra reinforcement. This project cost $100K and it's sole purpose was to prevent a workman from falling (unrestrained) 6 feet.

It must be a government project.

Sounds like the bumper is coming along great, can't wait to see it.

PassRunnerZJ
02-25-2009, 12:12 AM
Would cutting the lining and re-attaching it be out of the question? That is what I ended up doing with my front inner-liners. If you knew someone that worked in a frizbee factory you could probably get some scrap sheets.

Look and see if there is a plastics mfg somewhere close that could supply sheeting or (just came to me) pick 'n pull and look at some front truck inner-linners.

Z
02-25-2009, 01:07 AM
Would cutting the lining and re-attaching it be out of the question? That is what I ended up doing with my front inner-liners. If you knew someone that worked in a frizbee factory you could probably get some scrap sheets.


Todd -

I don't have any friends in China (Frisbee manufacturer).

I actually like the idea of the vinyl lawn edging - 5-6" strips of pliable, durable vinyl that I can plastic rivet into place. When I'm done it'll kinda look like an armadillo under there. :)

ZigsRig
02-25-2009, 05:27 PM
cant wait to see it....

I'm still exploring my own winch route...

im trying to figure out who made this...

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h48/zigsrig/05%20grand/Frontwinchmount.jpg

Z
02-25-2009, 06:28 PM
Yeah, I was looking for something a little more elegant than that. It's not too bad a solution, though.

jsteves
02-26-2009, 03:47 PM
That would block a lot of air flow!

Z
02-26-2009, 03:52 PM
That would block a lot of air flow!

Actually not that much. The winch is taking place of the bumper, which would be blocked anyway. There's a big void underneath that mount that would let in a bunch of air. The obstruction in front of the grill doesn't seem to be too bad.

jsteves
02-26-2009, 09:39 PM
Actually not that much. The winch is taking place of the bumper, which would be blocked anyway. There's a big void underneath that mount that would let in a bunch of air. The obstruction in front of the grill doesn't seem to be too bad.

Not your design...the pic posted above.

Z
02-26-2009, 09:49 PM
Not your design...the pic posted above.

I know - but it's roughly the same design. The only difference from an airflow perspective is the bits that stick out up top.

jsteves
02-27-2009, 12:32 PM
The angle is awkward but it looks like the solenoid, light bar, and lights block quite a bit of air flow. I would get one with the seperate solenoid, mount it under the hood or behind the bumper and NOT put on the lights, bar, etc.

ZigsRig
02-28-2009, 02:52 AM
Though I do not have a winch on there yet... I haven’t had any issues with overheating at all, at any speed. I’m just wondering how this would affect my jeeps cooling (especially at low speeds) compared to stock. Even towing my ATV trailer, in the 90's down to the sand dunes I never got the temp gage out of its normal operating zone. I wouldn't think the winch being in the way would cause that much "blockage" to increase the heat in my engine to a critical level...

Oh, and i wouldnt have lights on there... not my thing. I have another solution coming for that ;)

thoughts? :smt102

mikskillz
03-02-2009, 08:11 PM
hey man - nice build. Id like to do the same thing to the rear w/ the 33" spare. I can;t stand mine on the roof but right now its my only choice.

Your front bumper is a little too much for my purpose right now but i wanted to ask you about the stock bumper on the 08.

From the 1 front shot in this thread it looks like you removed the lower air dam. How do the fog lights mount to the front fascia? the approach angle is terrible and i'm trying to find the best way to improve it as much as i can but still keep the unique 08 front grill.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3071817

let me know if yo have any insight - many thanks

Z
03-07-2009, 11:58 PM
Center cover is almost done. Went for a test fit today - the cover needs a few tweaks to get the fit just right (close the gaps), but here's the current status (I love it):

http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWinchMount/cover1.jpg
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWinchMount/cover2.jpg
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWinchMount/cover3.jpg
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKWinchMount/cover4.jpg

Z
03-08-2009, 12:11 AM
hey man - nice build. Id like to do the same thing to the rear w/ the 33" spare. I can;t stand mine on the roof but right now its my only choice.

Your front bumper is a little too much for my purpose right now but i wanted to ask you about the stock bumper on the 08.

From the 1 front shot in this thread it looks like you removed the lower air dam. How do the fog lights mount to the front fascia? the approach angle is terrible and i'm trying to find the best way to improve it as much as i can but still keep the unique 08 front grill.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3071817

let me know if yo have any insight - many thanks

If you look at the AEV WK at that site the lower valence is all black. That entire (black) piece comes off, but there's still fascia material around the center section (where the removable black valence angles upward). The fog lamps are attached to the fascia that's hidden behind the attached valence.

The approach angle with the valence removed (and 4" of lift and 33" tires) is actually very good, though I do have a few scrapes on my fog lamp lenses and outer edges of the fascia.

ArloGuthroJeep
03-08-2009, 01:15 AM
I may have missed it Tom, but any plans for protection of the lower radiator?

Bumper looks great:)

Z
03-08-2009, 09:28 AM
I may have missed it Tom, but any plans for protection of the lower radiator?

Bumper looks great:)

4xGuard skid plate (currently remove) protects that.

fpkites
03-08-2009, 04:36 PM
Almost factory Tom, looks great.

ZigsRig
03-09-2009, 03:22 PM
Looks great Z...

Cant wait to see the finished project!

mikskillz
03-10-2009, 08:39 PM
If you look at the AEV WK at that site the lower valence is all black. That entire (black) piece comes off, but there's still fascia material around the center section (where the removable black valence angles upward). The fog lamps are attached to the fascia that's hidden behind the attached valence.

The approach angle with the valence removed (and 4" of lift and 33" tires) is actually very good, though I do have a few scrapes on my fog lamp lenses and outer edges of the fascia.


yea - Russ over at 4XGuard showed me a shot w/ the valence off. I like the look of the black on mine so i want to try and keep it around the lights and just below the tow hooks. I might try and just trim that lower lip off that hangs down below where the front fender ends. hopefully that will give me increased approach angle and still keep a finished look.

I'm worried about my fog lamps too but those are replaceable, i guess so is the valence too for that matter but why beat it up if you can avoid it.

anyway that bumper you have going looks real nice.

ganna keep watching this post - good luck and thanks for the insight

Z
04-11-2009, 10:32 AM
Skins are done:

http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKFrontBumper/1.jpg
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKFrontBumper/2.jpg
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKFrontBumper/2a.jpg
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKFrontBumper/3.jpg

....

Z
04-11-2009, 10:40 AM
....

http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKFrontBumper/4.jpg
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKFrontBumper/5.jpg
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKFrontBumper/6.jpg
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKFrontBumper/7.jpg

....

Z
04-11-2009, 10:41 AM
....

Chrome or body color grill? When I put the body colored grill on, the lights seem too small. Maybe I just need to get used to the look...
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKFrontBumper/8c.jpg
http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKFrontBumper/9c.jpg

Still on the TODO list:

1. Center skin is 14 gauge, I need to develop some ledge protection for it.
2. Tighten up the vertical "seams" on the center skin.
3. Bring the tow hooks forward about 3 inches to make them more accessible and provide some protection for the center skin.
4. Finish Winch install including controller.
5. Install end cap-to-subframe supports.
6. Hammerite the winch mount (all the welded metal that holds the winch but doesn't need to be body color.)
7. Finish fender liner mods.
8. Mount and wire fog/wheeling lights.
9. Make a new, better windshield washer reservoir mount - the current one works, but I can do better.

Derek33
04-11-2009, 10:42 AM
Wow, incredible job! great lines.

Z
04-11-2009, 10:46 AM
Wow, incredible job! great lines.

Thanks. The sheetmetal guys that fabbed the rounded center section did a fantastic job - and lost their shirts based on their estimate (which they honored).

(I gave the shop owner a big tip to give to his workers 'cause I loved their work so much.)

ArloGuthroJeep
04-11-2009, 10:54 AM
Wow that looks great Tom!

Shinobi
04-11-2009, 11:11 AM
Wow that looks awesome !! :eek:

jsteves
04-11-2009, 12:24 PM
looks great!

redline61
04-11-2009, 01:35 PM
You sir, are a badass, looks amazing.

Colorado 5.9
04-11-2009, 02:24 PM
I like the body color grill best. Very Very nice!:bling:

Matt
04-11-2009, 02:35 PM
I like the body color grill best. Very Very nice!:bling:

Agreed, the red grill looks better.

I love the outcome of it Tom; objective complete!

AgitatedPancake
04-11-2009, 03:16 PM
it looks awesome man, great work! I agree with the others though, you need some lower rad protection. On my dub I crushed that lower support, and it pushed up hard enough on the radiator to crack the side tanks off.

Matt
04-11-2009, 03:59 PM
AP - see post #122 ;)

AgitatedPancake
04-11-2009, 04:25 PM
AP - see post #122 ;)


Derr. Thanks :D

jsteves
04-11-2009, 04:48 PM
Painted grill for sure!

dp96zj
04-11-2009, 07:34 PM
Wow that is SICK. The hidden winch part is my favorite. Great design!

Gb02WJ
04-11-2009, 09:25 PM
Looks amazing:smt041 I would say defiantly go with the body color grill. Nice Jeep:smt041

fpkites
04-11-2009, 10:42 PM
Sheer artwork, Tom - like it came off the factory floor

Z
04-12-2009, 11:41 AM
Thanks for the kind comments, guys.

I've decided to replace the stock tow hooks with Ram tow hooks - I love the configuration and they should act as a wider skid plate than stock while decreasing the approach angle (over the stock hooks). These will be placed under where the sheet metal center transitions into the plate sides.

http://www.travelerz.net/public/WKFrontBumper/RamTowHooks.jpg