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1fox2go
02-02-2008, 11:12 PM
Does anyone know if the Tnt Long arm kit for the XJ will work and install correctly after the jeep was set up for Rustys long arm kit? My main concern is the holes that were drilled for the crossmember with rustys kit

Mtn WJ
02-05-2008, 05:22 PM
You should PM rockyacht. He is the owner of TnT. He is a good guy. His name is Bob.

1fox2go
02-05-2008, 05:32 PM
Says user not found. Thanks though. I sent T&T an email havent gotten a reply.

Matt
02-05-2008, 09:54 PM
Probably would be better to call the shop. It seems they're slower at answering emails.

I would get the unibody the stiffeners and spot weld it on (as well as bolting it on). Shouldn't have a problem doing that.

1fox2go
02-06-2008, 09:37 PM
Yea going to make some calls soon. I think it should be ok. T&T has 4 bolts per side to the rustys 2

1fox2go
02-17-2008, 05:55 PM
Gave him a call, nice guy, got it ordered as well as the unibody stiffeners. You said bolt on as well as weld? He mentioned just welding

1fox2go
02-21-2008, 09:21 PM
Stuff arrived, Super beef. Pics if anyone is interested

Matt
02-22-2008, 12:29 AM
Post up!

JordanA
02-22-2008, 06:23 AM
Yeah, post em up! I've been considering TNT for my next long arm setup.... not going to resort to rustys again, that's for sure (it wasn't bad, just could be better).

death-mobile
02-22-2008, 10:22 PM
Yea I'm curious to see. I emailed TNT and asked why they don't offer unibody stiffeners for the WJ, and they said that they felt the WJ doesn't need them. Can anyone shed some light on why this would be so? I was thinking about going to Claytons and adding the unibody stiffeners myself, but I'm confused by TNT's remarks. :smt024

Colorado 5.9
02-23-2008, 01:20 AM
Well I'll let Keith chime in about this but everything I've heard is that the WJ uniframe is MUCH stonger than the ZJ's.

death-mobile
02-23-2008, 12:34 PM
So why not make it even stronger!!! :smt066

Mtn WJ
02-23-2008, 05:05 PM
WJs according to Jeep have a 30% stiffer uniframe than a ZJ and a ZJ is stiffer than an XJ. WJs are not prone to the problems with doors not opening and closing under full flex etc like the XJs and sometimes even with ZJs. No reason you cant reinforce the frame on a WJ but generally not needed. TNTs Long arm kits have dual xmemebers with a belly pan between them. This adds strength and protection at the same time. The belly pan also protects you from hitting frame. A different approach.

death-mobile
02-23-2008, 07:05 PM
I feel that is a better way to go actually. However...why no WJ kits listed on TNTs site? And...how would you compare/rate TNT to Claytons for a WJ?

OverkillZJ
02-23-2008, 09:10 PM
I personaly prefer Claytons, but I like simple and effective, and I've run it for about 7 years without a single issue.

death-mobile
02-23-2008, 09:14 PM
To be honest I haven't researched much of the differences between the two kits. You go pretty balls out with your jeep, so I'm taking 7 years without an issue is pretty testament to Clayton's design. However...TnT still strikes my interest and I'd love to hear some different takes on the two kits.
:smt117

Mtn WJ
02-24-2008, 01:01 AM
I feel that is a better way to go actually. However...why no WJ kits listed on TNTs site? And...how would you compare/rate TNT to Claytons for a WJ?


The TnT WJ long arm kit should be available. They are waiting to put it on their site until they have enough inventory to cover the orders. However you should be able to get a kit. TnT's kit has several differences than other kits. The front arms are Ylinked to provide more clearance, the arms pivot at the drive shaft upper joints to reduce binding, they add a second cross member in the rear for attaching the rear arms which increases strength and includes a belly pan between them for tcase and frame protection. They are triangulated in the rear like others but again the frame side of the control arm joints pivot with the driveshaft for reduced binding between the shafts ujoints and the arms. Their steering includes beefy 1 ton joints and relocate the track bar in front for better travel and no binding. Another feature is the ability to replace all the mounts and parts. They are bolted in using weld on nut plates. This means the strength of welded on but the replacement ease of bolt on with out risk of damaging your unibody. Pretty much the latest rev in long arm designs.

death-mobile
02-24-2008, 02:39 AM
Cool. Sounds cool, but I already know how much you like it :D

I have heard that claytons has some binding issues up front. I also would like to hear some other peoples opinions on tnt's being an overall stronger kit than claytons. I am in the market for a long arm kit, and right now I am 50/50 on claytons/tnt.

Colorado 5.9
02-24-2008, 03:42 AM
The only thing I can ad to the WJ discussion is I have NEVER seen Claytons kit flex like TnT's does. I'm talking about just the WJ kit.

I suppose the shocks & springs have a lot to do with it but my god it flexes about the best I've seen anything flex.

OverkillZJ
02-24-2008, 03:53 AM
The only thing I can ad to the WJ discussion is I have NEVER seen Claytons kit flex like TnT's does. I'm talking about just the WJ kit.

I suppose the shocks & springs have a lot to do with it but my god it flexes about the best I've seen anything flex.


Wow. you've never seen Claytons flex like TNt'S Des.... don't make me call you out on that..

Im' unbiased on that, but I don't undertsatnt the basis for your staememt, so I'll call you out on it.

Colorado 5.9
02-24-2008, 03:58 AM
I've never seen John's or David's WJ's flex like keith's. Does that meen they can't? No, I just haven't seen them flex that much.



like I said. I suppose the length of the springs & shocks have a lot to do with it.

When I said anything I guess I should have said any WJ.:D

I've seen a few ZJ's flex like his WJ but not necessarily with Claytons kit.

death-mobile
02-24-2008, 04:24 AM
Hmmmmm:popcorn:

Comparison shots???

Colorado 5.9
02-24-2008, 04:52 AM
It wouldn't be fair.:D

No, JK. I have shots of Keiths really flexing but not much of anyone elses. I have a few of John's but not in the exact spots other that Golden Spike & the timing is off between them. The ones of John are not at the greatest flex.:(

Besides, I really don't think It's that much of a big deal. Both kits are great. TnT's just has a few extras that Claytons does not. He has a nice skid now but I think it's only for the ZJ I think.

Matt
02-24-2008, 08:57 AM
Here's when we were trying to flex it out, in which we were within a inch or two of lifting a tire. But take into account that this pic was taken a couple days after getting the kit, really no adjustments made and I know the passenger tire was into the bumper pretty good.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j131/mountainmatt/05-12-07_1742.jpg

I've seen both kits flex pretty good, but I'm biased and we all know where my opinion lies.

AgitatedPancake
02-24-2008, 02:46 PM
With the front D44 I made some adjustments to my claytons, (higher shock mounts included) I'm dropping my 6" springs and the only thing holding me back are my shocks but I bet I could pull that kinda flex out of claytons with different shocks, or shock placement.

OverkillZJ
02-24-2008, 02:53 PM
Wow. you've never seen Claytons flex like TNt'S Des.... don't make me call you out on that..

Im' unbiased on that, but I don't undertsatnt the basis for your staememt, so I'll call you out on it.

Wow, apparently i had a few last night, based on my spelling / typing! :D

Just about all the LA kits will flex the same, even RK or Rusty's (doesn't mean i'd ever consider running it.) - Claytons does bind up front, as will any radious style front, but I've yet to see anyone twist a tube or have an issue with it.

Really just make your decision and buy one, you don't hear anyone bitching about either kit...

1fox2go
02-24-2008, 05:56 PM
So I took out all the rustys stuff, to me it seemed like it was just a crossmember with long arm brackets added to it. Not much more stronger than stock in my opinion, and I am basing that on the lack of bracing. The TnT kit had extra bracing on the sides, yes the rustys kit did as well but the material used in the brace...ehh left something to be desired, since they were bent when we removed the side braces

Anyway. Got it installed, my only complaint is that he wasnt clear that the brackets were sided IE passenger and driver side support brackets

so after a few headaches and finally seeing if the brackets were sided, we finally got it installed

I do have pics, but mostly of the crossmember, which weighs in at 60 pounds according to UPS. All in all I say its going to be a good kit. I will def get a review post on it when I cant but since I have a serious electrical gremlin in the jeep I cant get out and test it. Bummer

I will post the pics up tommorow

death-mobile
02-24-2008, 08:25 PM
Cool man, look forward to seeing it.

JordanA
02-24-2008, 10:19 PM
Can't wait!

faststang1
02-25-2008, 02:38 AM
I cant wait....this might make me go TnT for long arms...lol

1fox2go
02-25-2008, 05:46 PM
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d69/vampirikfox/Image011.jpg
Belly Skid

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d69/vampirikfox/Image036-1.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d69/vampirikfox/Image045.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d69/vampirikfox/Image039-1.jpg

Sorry for the lack of pics if anyone wants a pic of any particular part let me know I will get them this weekend

Matt
02-25-2008, 09:37 PM
Where's the grand???



























J/K looks great, now get some trail shots and post back up.

1fox2go
02-26-2008, 07:46 AM
Grand is in the driveway:D

It will be awhile, since I cant get it to run and I need to get shafts made. I am hoping to make it to big dogs in april though

I will def post up some trail pics as soon as I can

JordanA
02-27-2008, 12:58 AM
Looking good.

BigDaveZJ
02-27-2008, 01:25 AM
Wow, apparently i had a few last night, based on my spelling / typing! :D

Just about all the LA kits will flex the same, even RK or Rusty's (doesn't mean i'd ever consider running it.) - Claytons does bind up front, as will any radious style front, but I've yet to see anyone twist a tube or have an issue with it.

Really just make your decision and buy one, you don't hear anyone bitching about either kit...

And it only matters how much USABLE flex any of them have, and more often than not usable flex will not be determined by the brand of the long arms as opposed to the spring and shock combination.

And just to add a Clayton WJ flex shot:
http://www.mallcrawlin.com/wheelinpics/moapapril05/GSWprerun05%20070.jpg

EDIT:

For me, the Clayton vs T&T argument basically comes down to this. If you want something simple that's going to work great and not leave you stranded go Clayton. If you want something that's a little fancier and a hair more intricate but still gets the job done, go T&T. Clayton was my choice because I want my suspension to be as simplistic and dependable as possible, with flex being less important than reliability.

With either kit you're still eleventy billion times better off than you would be with RK or Rusty's.

JohnBoulderCO
02-27-2008, 01:54 AM
Clayton's flexes plenty. The tires are 35". I wouldn't know what to do with anymore flex.

Matt
02-27-2008, 02:32 AM
Clayton's flexes plenty. The tires are 35". I wouldn't know what to do with anymore flex.

You could find bigger cracks to drive though. :flipoff2:

OverkillZJ
02-27-2008, 02:40 AM
[quote=BigDaveZJ;183612]
http://www.mallcrawlin.com/wheelinpics/moapapril05/GSWprerun05%20070.jpg


HEY, I took that picture, where's my .0000000000002???

faststang1
02-27-2008, 09:07 PM
Clayton's flexes plenty. The tires are 35". I wouldn't know what to do with anymore flex.
I think if u had the same size tires,springs and shocks it would be about the same.....they both seem to be good kits......I was thinking about getting TnT's long arms for my ZJ because I go play in the dunes alot and I'm always rubbing the crossmember so TnT's skid sounds good!!!!!

JohnBoulderCO
02-28-2008, 11:19 AM
I think if u had the same size tires,springs and shocks it would be about the same.....
It would be the same suspension travel, but the pic would look different.

Getting a 32" tire to droop below the slider requires less flex then getting a 35" tire to droop below. If I was on 31's the flex would "appear" to be even more. You have to take into account tire size when looking at "poser" flex pics.

Both kits flex plenty. I like my Clayton kit.

Matt
02-28-2008, 09:41 PM
Getting a 32" tire to droop below the slider requires less flex then getting a 35" tire to droop below. If I was on 31's the flex would "appear" to be even more. You have to take into account tire size when looking at "poser" flex pics.

Both kits flex plenty. I like my Clayton kit.

35's :flipoff2:

But as stated, both kits are great. I've wheeled IFS for to many years so I'm kinda a flex whore. I will probably throw a rear sway on before summer for more stability.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j131/mountainmatt/IMG_0019.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j131/mountainmatt/IMG_0018.jpg

And I'm not flexed out yet. :)

faststang1
02-29-2008, 02:11 AM
35's :flipoff2:

But as stated, both kits are great. I've wheeled IFS for to many years so I'm kinda a flex whore. I will probably throw a rear sway on before summer for more stability.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j131/mountainmatt/IMG_0019.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j131/mountainmatt/IMG_0018.jpg

And I'm not flexed out yet. :)


I'm a flex whore to....LOL....they both look good!!!!!!
:smt023

1fox2go
03-24-2008, 04:05 PM
Ok so the install is complete. Quick question, the super flex joints at the cross member end of the lower long arms, is it common for those to feel "different" while driving on a smooth surface?

It almost feels like they are loose, but after checking things over 2 times now I cant find anything loose.

DarkXJ
03-24-2008, 04:22 PM
Stuff arrived, Super beef. Pics if anyone is interested
You ordered and received within 4 days? Damn it!! Everyone told me T&T took longer than anybody else so I went a different route. But T&T was definitely my preferred source. They include a belly skid for XJs also and the flex shots I've seen of some XJs with their kit were amazing. Well, now I know for the future, when I decide to go ahead and do long arms anyways. :D

jsteves
03-24-2008, 05:57 PM
Clayton's and 35's:
http://jeepzj.net/nailflex.jpg

That is not full droop either. With any decent (read: not RK or Crusty's) longarm kit flex is limited by the length of the springs and shocks, not by the arms themselves. Claytons is simple, pure beef, and most of all reliable. IF I ever break I will send it back for free replacement.

Sudz
03-24-2008, 06:51 PM
With any decent (read: not RK or Crusty's) longarm kit flex is limited by the length of the springs and shocks,
or brake lines :rolleyes:

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c364/-Sudz/100_0220.jpg

faststang1
03-26-2008, 12:07 AM
Nice!!!!!!

chadjans
03-28-2008, 02:21 AM
Clayton's and 35's:
http://jeepzj.net/nailflex.jpg

That is not full droop either. With any decent (read: not RK or Crusty's) longarm kit flex is limited by the length of the springs and shocks, not by the arms themselves. Claytons is simple, pure beef, and most of all reliable. IF I ever break I will send it back for free replacement.

Did I take this photo?

jsteves
03-28-2008, 01:11 PM
I pulled it from our camera. You may have a very similar one if were standing next to my brother taking pictures.

1fox2go
03-29-2008, 05:20 PM
Got some flex shots
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d69/vampirikfox/Image055.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d69/vampirikfox/Image033-1.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d69/vampirikfox/Image057.jpg

The steering geometry is outta wack so it limits the front travel

faststang1
03-29-2008, 05:24 PM
How do u like it?

1fox2go
03-30-2008, 06:20 AM
Its noticeably better than short arms even with the steering hindering its travel. So far I like it. The only thing that bothers me is the super flex joints, if you hit any kind of bump in the driveway you can feel the arms flex, feels kinda loose but you get used to it after you drive it a few times. It doesnt affect handling or anything

chadjans
03-30-2008, 03:48 PM
How do you feel an arm twist?

1fox2go
03-30-2008, 04:04 PM
Its hard to explain but I can feel the flex joint move

jsteves
03-30-2008, 08:23 PM
Its hard to explain but I can feel the flex joint move

Whatever it is it can't really be good.

wjguy
03-31-2008, 01:14 AM
shoulda went with clayton:smt022
nevermind the spring that fell out -oops-:smt044

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/wjguy/008.jpg

1fox2go
03-31-2008, 05:43 AM
nah its a good setup. my driveway is by no means smooth. i cant test it on the road yet. it could also be something with the fubar steering. i need more time to work with it