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View Full Version : Need NOOB audio help... paging Jordan, Curt, etc



ELLLLLIOTTTTT
04-29-2007, 06:51 PM
So my music just is not loud enough in the jeep. I cannot hear the bass whatsoever and the mid/high's sound like shit. Just as a background I currently have a Pioneer 7300(I think), 50x4, 2 sets of RCA pre-outs, Infinity 6.5" reference speakers in all 4 doors, and have bypassed the amp under the backseat via the writeup on JU.

Now I have a 5.9 soundbar but I don't really know how to wire it up. I also think I want to add an 8 or 10" sub in the back. Can I get a decent 4 channel amp to run the speakers in the soundbar AND the sub? If so, got any reccomendations? I am just trying to get some volume and quality out of my music. M/T's + turndown + windows down = hard to drown out!

Any advice would be appreciated.

RiPPiNiTuP7
04-29-2007, 08:37 PM
a 5 channel amp will do the trick for what you want. i'd wire up the front door speakers and either the back door speakers or the sound bar as the other set (make sure they match brand/model wise)...whatever set is left over run off the head unit. 5 channel amps are the most popular for what your trying to setup so that will be the easiest to get ahold of for a decent price. the specs on 5 channel amps usually say something like: 75x4 + 200x1 which means you can run 4 speakers at 75 watts and one subwoofer at 200 watts. just make sure to pay attention to the ohm loads of the amp and your speakers so they match (unless you know how to wire the ohm loads different, but you said your new to car audio so stick with keeping it simple so you don't fry your shit). so if it says it makes its power at 4 ohms, just pick up speakers and a sub that needs the same power or slightly higher than the amp puts out at the same ohm load and you'll be set.

DJJordache
04-29-2007, 09:20 PM
I would recommend getting components(separate woofer and tweeter with crossover) for up front 6 3/4" or 6 1/2" with chrysler 6 3/4" adapter, and 5 1/4" for the rear soundbar. These are the stock sizes and would be easiest to install for the newb. I would and did remove the speakers from the rear doors since that location is acoustically terrible and installed the soundbar.

You can also get the MTX Thunderform box and the JL Audio stealthbox and swap out the subs that come with them for better ones to be able to put in 2 tens in the back without losing much cargo space.

As for the amps it would be easiest to get a 5 channel one for a lower powered system to save some wiring headache and this amp could be mounted under the rear seats. And make sure the amp has a built in highpass crossover for the "highs" and a low pass for the sub(s). I would not try and do the speakers and the sub with a 4 channel amp since you can't control the signals to the speakers well.

I also ran new speaker wires (12AWG) to every speaker since the normal ones are too small for the power I'm pumping. You will also have to run some power wires from the battery to the amp for good clean amperage. How large of wires is determined by how large of amps you plan on installing. OH and MAKE SURE to get some good/decent RCA's the cheapies will not sound as clear!

For the sub it also depends on if you want a large box or a smaller box. Believe it or not the box design effects the sound of the sub ALOT! I built one for my brother that will pound louder than most dual 15's with just one good 10.

It all depends on how much you want to spend and how loud you want:D I'm not talking about crap ricer loud either! I'm talking about crystal clear audiophile like quality that is so loud it makes your head hurt:smt020


and remember this: almost always you get what you pay for with car audio example: Pyramid(cheap) 1000 watts DOES NOT EQUAL HIGH END: MTX, PG, JL, PPI, etc 1000watts!!!!!!

DJJordache
04-29-2007, 09:35 PM
oh and when installing DO NOT run the RCA's right next to the power wires for the amp. I ran the power wires down the passenger side and the RCA's down the drivers side. Make sure the have a fuse block right near the battery for the amp power wires.

CurtP
04-29-2007, 10:09 PM
What is your budget? Do you want to do this in stages or all at once? From the sound of things, your biggest problem is running the speakers from the HU's internal amp, especially with power-hungry Infinity speakers (Kappas are even worse). Personally, I think you would have been better off running the speakers from the factory amp. There's no way you're not getting a true 50w/channel from the Pioneer. Did you already install the sound bar? I wouldn't get excited about it - it's not sealed so it will act like a free-air box and it really doesn't add much IMO. 5.250" speakers fit in it, which aren't as big as what you can fit in the doors (6.5" or 6.75"). If your HU has two sets of pre-amp outputs, then you're going to be stuck with either four-channel or two-channel with sub output.

I'd do it one of two ways - either by using the factory amp or adding a four channel amp. I'd skip the sub for now until you figure out if you really want/need one after doing something with the main speakers. It's too easy to get caught up in dumping a lot of money in a stereo system.

You'd probably benefit from a sound deadener too, but that's another area that most people go way overboard (I'm guilty of it myself).

unforgiven
04-29-2007, 11:39 PM
hey guys.
just my own setup to throw out ideas. i am running my speakers on the HU's internal amp. alpine everything. four 6 1/2's in the doors one 500 watt amp driving two 12" subs in a huge freakin box. that sounded good, but didn't really get the great sound until i put in a pair of 6x9's in individual boxes on top of my sub box. it seemed to be lacking in the audio and vocal department until then. but those 6x9's cleaned it up real smart.
so the subs face the hatch, the 6x9's face the front on top of the box on an angle pointing inward and forward. this is all held quite well and tightly in place with that fancy, useless stocker cargo net!!! the carpeted boxes grab the rug and each other real well.

also, the 6x's are merely run of the rear door harness, so the fade is balanced at 3 to the rear to give it a great concert sound. all the while with the subs set at whatever level ya want.


my 2 bits guys just fer ideas.

DJJordache
04-30-2007, 08:35 AM
uh oh.... don't get us started on oval speakers, hahaha! some 4 channel amps have a pass through sub out RCA's that could hook up a sub amp later. The amp in the HU is probably 25x4 RMS if it is lucky and it is 50x4 peak but at that power level the THD is high.
Yeah the soundbar is free-air but it can provide better sound imaging than the rear door locations. The free-air issue can "kind of" be changed if you get the speaker baffles that mount on the back side of the speaker that crutchfield sells.

so what if your butget? how far do you want to go? Do you want a large sub box? Do you have any stores around you that sell just above wholesale to individuals? That is where I got a ton of my stuff and MUCH cheaper than the big stores for the same items:D

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
04-30-2007, 10:53 AM
I didn't really consider my budget. I could do it in stages.

I'm just trying to figure out how to wire everything up so that it will get adequate power. I am probably going to put infinity's in the soundbar. But should I get another amp to run those speakers? If so what kind/brand?

ArloGuthroJeep
04-30-2007, 11:27 AM
uh oh.... don't get us started on oval speakers, hahaha! some 4 channel amps have a pass through sub out RCA's that could hook up a sub amp later. The amp in the HU is probably 25x4 RMS if it is lucky and it is 50x4 peak but at that power level the THD is high.
Yeah the soundbar is free-air but it can provide better sound imaging than the rear door locations. The free-air issue can "kind of" be changed if you get the speaker baffles that mount on the back side of the speaker that crutchfield sells.

so what if your butget? how far do you want to go? Do you want a large sub box? Do you have any stores around you that sell just above wholesale to individuals? That is where I got a ton of my stuff and MUCH cheaper than the big stores for the same items:D

Little hijack here: What are your thoughts on 6x9's? I run Infinity Kapps 692.5's up front...they make nice base but seem to be missing the mids to me...*shrug*

DJJordache
04-30-2007, 11:41 AM
Little hijack here: What are your thoughts on 6x9's? I run Infinity Kapps 692.5's up front...they make nice base but seem to be missing the mids to me...*shrug*

Cody said it best here:


Think about it....how many times have you seen an oval speaker in any hi-end application. Have you ever seen one in a nice home audio speaker? Concert Speakers? etc. etc. 6x9's are the ugly red-headed step child of audio--when I see them I just grimace.

Round cones are acoustically superior because the cone is less prone to deflection. I guess theoretically, if you could design a suspension and a cone material capable of dispersing 100% of the force uniformly around the speaker, then it wouldn't matter. This isn't a perfect world so audio engineers just stick with what works--why spend time over-engineering a design that is flawed from the beginning? .

Stuffing 4 fuckin tweeters into a speaker is another rediculous idea in and of itself. You only need 1 quality tweeter. 3 shitty tweeters don't make up the difference. Speaker manufactureres that make 4-way 6 x 9's (or anything 3 or 4 way for that matter) are just taking advantage of a market of people that still operate under the premise that more = better. Some people still think that, so they buy the speakers and convince themselves that they sound better.

but the other tenant to audio is that it only matters how it sounds to you. If you like the sound of 4 way 6x9's vs a quality 6.5" component or co-axial, then awesome.



I'm just trying to figure out how to wire everything up so that it will get adequate power. I am probably going to put infinity's in the soundbar. But should I get another amp to run those speakers? If so what kind/brand?
So are you putting the infinity's in the front doors, rear doors, AND the soundbar? I would probably use speakers in the front doors and soundbar with a separate amp from the head unit and just not use the head unit amp.

Cody
04-30-2007, 11:48 AM
hey, I almost sounded like I knew what i was talking about ;)

I didn't read everyone's post, but you don't need the soundbar, rear, and front sets of speakers. Just put a 4 channel amp on your fronts and rears and put in a 10 or a 12 in the type of box you prefer (I prefer well designed vented enclosures--but if you're not into the math then just buy a simple sealed enclosure). Done and done.

A 5 channel would work also. I think that was mentioned.

DJJordache
04-30-2007, 11:52 AM
I prefer well designed vented enclosures--but if you're not into the math then just buy a simple sealed enclosureyeah if you don't mind the math a snail shell or transmission line box can sound amazing!

CurtP
04-30-2007, 11:53 AM
IMO, I wouldn't even bother with the sound bar. The acoustics in these things are quite poor, so unless you're trying to go all-out, I wouldn't bother. I've been everywhere from dumping stupid money to being extremely cheap and I've come to the conclusion that putting very much money in automotive audio is a huge waste. Spend your money wisely, make a few good choices and don't worry about it too much.

Since you already have aftermarket speakers, I'd concentrate on a decent 4-channel amp. Think about what you want and what you use this vehicle for. Is it possible that you're going to get the interior wet? Is this a daily driver that you spend a lot of time in? How much money do you really want to put into the stereo?

If it were me, I'd put a fairly inexpensive 4-channel amp in and run it off the RCA preouts from the HU. Something around 75 watts RMS, like either a Profile HA1040 ($120 at Crutchfield) or Profile AP1040 ($150 at Crutchfield). Both of those are 80w RMS and should be more than enough power and sound good enough for the environment that it's going into.

If you're going to use some sound deadener, I'd recommend B-Quiet Ultimate (http://www.b-quiet.com/ultimate.html). Considerably cheaper than Dynamat, and once it's down, it's down for good. I'd use a little bit on the door skin right behind the speaker and about a 12"x12" area around the speaker itself. No need to go way overboard and cover everything. If you REALLY want to be frugal, then pick up a roll of ice dam roofing membrane from your favorite home improvement center. It doesn't work as well as a true deadener, but it's cheap and you can use several layers of it.

After fucking around with both of my ZJs, they both are now set up pretty much the same way - some sound deadener in the doors, 6.750" Infinity Kappa speakers in the doors (5.25" Infinity Kappas in the 5.9's sound bar), factory amp and a factory HU (I'm using a factory round-corner HU from a 99+ Grand in the 5.9 along with the Mopar aux input/iPod interface adapter). I personally think the 4-speaker setup in the '96 sounds better than the 6-speaker setup in the '98.

The biggest downside to using the factory amp is that it uses speaker-level inputs instead of pre-amp inputs. But in these vehicles, it's hardly noticeable, especially when going down the road.

Do you still have your factory amp? Did you hack up the factory wiring harness?

ELLLLLIOTTTTT
04-30-2007, 01:12 PM
I don't know if I would call it hacking up but I did splice the wires together in order to bypass the amp. I was told the amp was creating a bottleneck effect and not letting the music become loud enough. I bypassed the amp and noticed NO difference whatsoever. I still have it but really wouldn't bother putting it back in.

The jeep is not really a daily driver but I do drive it as often as possible. Especially on nice summer days. I just want to hear my music at decent quality when I drive.

CurtP
04-30-2007, 04:09 PM
What have we told you about listening to those clowns on JU :flipoff2:

Buy a 4-channel amp from Crutchfield. They're not the cheapest, but if you don't like it, you can send it back. Don't forget two sets of RCA patch cables and a wiring kit - but I wouldn't spend a whole lot on either one of those either. The only time I've heard a difference between a $400 cable and a $20 cable is when one of them was defective. Try MonoPrice.com: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021803&p_id=2865&seq=1&format=2&style=

Or you could get everything from Crutchfield: 10ga wiring kit: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-dwcxxuF6gXF/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=710&I=142PA10&search=amp+wiring+kit

8ga wiring kit: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-dwcxxuF6gXF/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=710&I=142PA8&search=amp+wiring+kit

Extra patch cable: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-dwcxxuF6gXF/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=719&I=142A17C

I'm running a 200w RMS amp in my Formula on a 8ga wire, and have been for years. I don't buy into cabling bullshit.